The Flow Hive is not as sweet as it seems.
On World Honey Bee Day lets take a look at where bees are currently. According to a new U.S. Department of Agriculture study, honey bee populations are on a three percent rise, so far, in 2017. Additionally, Colony Collapse Disorder is down 27 percent compared to numbers in 2016. These numbers sound promising, but compared to the 90 percent decline of colonies over the past twenty years and our current administration, it’s difficult to find comfort. Consider that the EPA refuses to put the rusty patched bumble bee (Bombus affinis) on the endangered species list and refuses to protect bees against pesticide-coated seeds. Truth is, bees are still in trouble and although there are innovators attempting to help, they are actually doing more damage to bees than helping solve the problem.
Frankly, I am tired of people raving about how wonderful the Flow Hive invention is and posting it on my Facebook wall every other day. The viral-ity of this fundraising campaign was astounding. During my I even had a Belgium restaurant owner in Nicaragua ask me whether I’d heard about it.
They All Love It
“I love honey. This is amazing,” you’ve read over and over again in the comments from people worldwide who have no clue what goes into . The gadget allows you to harvest honey without opening and Australian inventors, Stuart, and son Ceder Anderson, promise that there is “no mess, no fuss, no expensive processing equipment, and (that) the bees are hardly even disturbed.”
But just because no disturbance can be viewed by the naked eye doesn’t mean the bees aren’t being disturbed. How arrogant humans can be.
The Flow Hive has raised over $13 million and counting. Perhaps folks genuinely want to and think this gadget is the answer. Meanwhile, this is a testament that is thriving.
Supporters argue that by simplifying (or automating) the most time-consuming part of beekeeping — the harvest — more people may want to take up beekeeping; more beekeeping may lead to greater support to save bees and therefore Flow Hive is a positive thing.
At first glance, I too thought Flow Hive was a genius invention that honors the bees but after looking under the proverbial lid, I’ve concluded that the device reduces nature’s miracle into a beer keg. It’s animal husbandry with a negative twist.
“One wants to see this be successful, easy to use, and contribute to the world of improved beekeeping,” adds Kim Flottum, beekeeper and editor of Bee Culture magazine. “But there’s the concern, far in the back of my mind, that it may appear to make things too easy, fostering, not improved beekeeping, but reduced attention to maintaining healthy bees.”
3 Reasons To Avoid The Flow Hive
Here are three of the multiple reasons why many folks refrain from using Flow Hive and consider it to be just another level of separation between bees and beings.
1. Plastic Comb
This newfangled honey collection system is comprised of plastic. It’s basically the Langstroth hive on steroids. The bees build their own wax on top of plastic frames and fill the cells with nectar and cap per usual. When you turn on the tap, presto — honey squeezes through the center of a plastic double-walled comb construction. Once draining is completed, you can reset the tap, and the comb goes back to its original position. Automation is in full effect.
Bees don’t particularly like plastic. Ask any organic beekeeper; they don’t need it. They fashion wax – a living substance – out of their own abdomens. Wax is where they store their food (nectar and pollen) and house their young. Wax vibrates and changes temperature.
“For bees, comb is far more than a Tupperware container for somebody else’s lunch; it is the tissue and frame of the hive and as such it forms multiple functions,” writes Beekeeper Jonathan Powell, who has a long family connection with bees, and is also a partner with a UK Charity called the Natural Bee-keeping Trust.
In his blog he writes:
Cells have wall thicknesses of just 0.07 mm, and are made from over 300 different chemical components. Wax removes toxins from the honey. The resonant frequency (230-270 Hz) of the comb is matched to the bees’ vibration sensors and acts as an information highway between bees on opposite sides of the comb. Bees manage the temperature of the cell rims to optimize transmissions of these messages. Wax holds history and memory via chemical signals put into it by the bees.
But instead of working with the wax comb they’ve created, the Flow Hive forces bees to deal with hormone-disrupting plastics that off-gas.
“Honey bees are able to recognize the smallest differences in wax composition but not polypropylene,” adds Powell.
Meanwhile, in colder climates honey often crystallizes, which means the Flow Hive may clog and require heating, killing the .
Incidentally, a Langstroth hive can be managed without any comb (so you let the bees make their own). It’s how the backward beekeepers like and run their hives.
2. Non-Existent Communion Between Bees & Beings
The Flow Hive is touted as a “beekeeper’s dream.” But in my opinion, it’s a wannabe’s fantasy. The point of beekeeping is to commune with the bees, not to further remove oneself from them. There’s nothing like slowing down, with reverence and care, to peek into a hive and observe the . Bees work themselves to death, so why should we have such easy access to their food?
Beekeeping involves putting on a bee suit (or not) and tuning into the bees to ensure that no harm is done when you go into their sacred space. And if you happen to get stung once or twice, you can choose to see it positively. It’s medicinal.
As the Italian photographer and fellow beekeeper Renée Ricciardi writes:
Beekeeping involves respect, patience, and attention to the natural world. After years of beekeeping you become attentive to humidity every time you step outside, you start noticing which flowers bloom first, you stop hating pesky dandelions, and when it rains you think of the bees.
Just like there is an indescribable satisfaction in eating food that you’ve grown, there’s something . And it doesn’t involve turning on a tap. Actually, many hobby beekeepers will tell you that honey is not the main attraction. Stewardship is. And that entails checking on the health of the colony, observing brood patterns, examining the queen, making sure there aren’t any parasites or pathogens, and observing the honey flow so you know what to leave behind.
With an automatic honey appliance, you get none of that. Even though there’s a window and you can see the bees, you are clueless as to what is actually going on with the hive. As a friend recently stated, “Flow Hive promotes the emotional detachment of factory farming.”
Commercial meanwhile is a whole other ball of wax. It is arduous work, involving long hours and a lot of casualties. You may likely have to:
- Get Suited Up
- Smoke the Bees
- Open the hive
- Remove the honey-filled frames
- Brush the bees from those frames
- Use a knife to remove the capping from the wax cells
- Use a centrifuge to get honey out of the frame
Flow Hive promises to remove all that “messy hard work.” Which commercial beekeeper wouldn’t be intrigued? Yet without some sort of communion, doesn’t the process kind of look like honey-robbing? Hands-off beekeeping? Free honey? Come on, it’s fast food honey that cuts corners.
Incidentally, honey has its own flow depending on the season and is usually harvested only once a year. Will wannabe beekeepers be mindful of nature’s rhythms or simply gorge on honey all year round? Most beekeepers, including myself, will tell you that honey is just a bonus. I keep bees because I love having them around. It’s a bee-centric, rather than honey-centric, endeavor. That’s why they called their movie More Than Honey.
Consider this: In the six-week lifespan of one single bee, she will only produce a quarter of a teaspoon of honey. Honey is sacred.
“I always tell beginners in my workshops, there is only one real reason to keep bees, and that is because they are fascinating. If you just want honey, make friends with a beekeeper,” says a beekeeper in Australia who goes by Adrian the Bee Man.
3. Expensive Gimmick
“The Flow Hive is now the largest international campaign ever on Indiegogo,” announced Slava Rubin, CEO of Indiegogo.
They surpassed their goal of 70,000 in less than 10 minutes and raised $2.1 million in one day, setting a record for the most funds raised in 24 hours.
For $600, you get a full automatic bee farm. But many beekeepers I’ve spoken to believe that it’s overpriced and unsustainable. Flow Hive actually costs more than a standard Langstroth hive.
Flow Hive has been described as a possible “key in keeping the world’s bee population from further decline.” Really? How so? This just makes honey collection simpler and easier. How does it help bees survive the issues they are currently grappling with? Like and ???
To quote Ricciardi once more, Flow Hive invites “lazy, hungry honey-eaters who are also terrified of being stung. It will create a generation of oblivious people who don’t know the delicate mechanics of the beautiful hive.”
Don’t get wooed by the hype and the mesmerizing images of honey. Get involved with Center For Food Safety or show Vanishing of the Bees to your children. Or take up real beekeeping. Participate in .
Please note that no one is saying that these people are bad. But as they say, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. and “good inventions” too.
Not everything that has to do with bees is good for the .
Maryam Henein is an investigative journalist, professional researcher, and producer of the award-winning documentary Vanishing of the Bees.
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502 thoughts on “3 Reasons To Go Against The Flow Hive”
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For all of those who have replied, well done!
Best put : “Your argument is a falsehood, wrapped in an opinion, covered in emotion, and packaged in conceit”
I am allergic to bee stings. With that I am a gardener and very much have wanted bees for over 10 years now. This seems like the perfect way for me do that!! I cannot take the chance of “communing with the bees” that closely. I don’t I like the plastic cones but it beats purchasing honey from the store and because of the decline in the bee population how can you go wrong???
read my submission An. I have 2 flow hives, and have listed the pro’s & cons imo.
What a terrible article.
An article that represents zero research and zero experience (in flow hive use).
Thus nothing other than ramblings based on ignorance and hearsay, and quotes from people equally ignorant.
For those interested in a flow hive or any bee keeping for that matter, I would look elsewhere for an informed, objective opinion.
My experience with the flowhive (FH) is as follows:
I have been interested in the concept of beekeeping for a number of years, and it was probably the invention of the flow hive that made me take the plunge. I bought in to the original crowd funding on indigogo.
I now have 2 flow hives and have been keeping bees for 3 years, but am unlikely to get any more in the near future, moving towards the more traditional set ups for additional hives. I don’t claim for a second to be an expert, in fact to the contrary; It’s been a very steep learning curve.
What I love about the flowhive:
Harvesting honey is quick & easy, with the few components (key & spout) supplied with the hive. I only had to supply my own jars. I get about 3 litres of honey per frame.
The flavour of each frame is unique to the next. Bees fill from the centre of the box outwards, so dependent on what happens to be their target during the filling of the frame influences the flavour. 7 frames, 7 flavours and colour ranging from almost black to clear.
The viewing windows around the hive, give the ability to conduct a quick check on activity and honey levels in the hive without having to suit up, nor open the hive & disturb (or squash) the bees.
The release of the flowhive has seen a huge surge in beekeepers, and importantly has assisted the education of the masses about the importance of bees to our very own survival.
The support, educational articles & videos that flow hive regularly release. As a new beekeeper, I am a keen reader / viewer of any educational material I find, and their web page is one of the best out there.
The downsides of the Flowhive.
The cost. You are looking at $800-1000 AUD for a hive. To put this in perspective; if you are a new beekeper, and only want 1 or 2 hives, the FH probably represent good value, because there is no need to buy a hot knife, extractor, strainers etc, to remove honey from the frames. I’m now interested enough to get some additional hives and place them in some suitable bush locations that I frequent regularly for work (I live in Kalgoorlie Western Australia, The wild flowers go nuts here every spring, & there is a constant supply of flowering eucalyptus from spring though autumn), but with locating in open bush land you always run the chance of some redneck using the hive for target practice, or it simply getting stolen. So the $80 of a Langstroth set up is about 1/10th the cost of the FH and far more economical to set up en-mass or where they are potentially accessible by people with ill intentions.
Cleaning of the frames (in the rare instance you need to) can be problematic. You can’t just rip out the foundation & melt it down. The FH themselves are sensitive to high temps which affects how you clean them- no more than 60 degrees Celsius)
Everything else about keeping bees in the FH compared to other systems is the same. The broodbox is identical; the need to inspect the hive routinely (frequency of inspection – there’s as many opinions for different frequencies as there are articles about it) for hive health, protecting the hive against pests (i’ve lost one hive to ants, before learning how to protect against them) etc.
So anyway. My opinion is that the flow hive is a great invention that eliminates the need for extraction equipment, and makes the extraction process simple. It’s probably only cost effective for a few hives, or maybe people who have large properties & are time poor. Don’t be naive to think that the FH eliminates the need to inspect or manage your bees, nor magically protects them against the myriad of issues that can beset a bee colony.. These will be the same regardless what method of housing your bees you go for.
Finally to Maryam. Shame on you for writing such a poor article, full of ignorance & bias. You claim to be a professional researcher….., this is clearly not one of your better submissions.
there is always someone who doesn’t like progress… i’m disappointed I was looking for some level headed discussion about the cons of the flow hive but people who dislike it seems to be people who just do it because “the old way” is always better and it make it seems like they just don’t like change I want facts not baseless complaints…
I am disappointed to read this article. It echoes the old beekeeper attitude. There is only one way to be a beekeeper and it is my way. I am glad my beekeeper club is not like this. My club promotes the idea that everyone has different methods. The idea that the flowhive is not natural and should not be used is absurd. Even the common langstroth hive is not natural. If you want natural then hollow out a tree and put some bees in it. Good luck extracting honey from that. If the bees hated it that much they would leave the hive and find a new home.
The flow hive company is very clear that you still have to perform the maintenance and care for the hive. They never promote the idea that the hive is a honey vending machine. When I did my first bee course, there was plenty of people there that have a flow hive. They had the full understanding that you need to suit up and care for the bees.
I did not end up getting a flow hive as it seemed too static for my liking. I like to tinker with things. At the moment I am making my own bases to better control the SHB. I also love extracting the honey, I find it so rewarding. But that is me, that is what I like to do. I understand some people are not the same as me. I understand they might want the flow hive because it is ready to go.
Lastly the flowhive has been great for beekeeping as it has sparked a whole new generation of beekeepers. If you are interested in bees then do a course and give it a go. Choose a hive type that suits you!
This is the kind of sentiment that kills widespread involvement in any hobby or job. The “you’re not as involved as I am” or “You don’t seem to care as much as I do” attitude in this article is pompous, self-righteous, and, if I am to be completely honest, badly worded. I am a writer and as such I could go through this entire piece and kill just about every paragraph with a little editing because the author of the article sucks at writing.
Doesn’t sound very good from another viewpoint, yeah? The same goes for beekeeping. Just because you think you are “communing with the bees”, honey theft is honey theft regardless of how you slice it it (or don’t slice if you have a Flow frame).
The thing is, bees are a part of nature. As such, they evolve and adapt over time. If more people keep bees in urban areas and in plastic structures, eventually the bees that thrive best in those situations will win out. You have to play the long game and give it time.
So don’t discourage anyone from keeping bees. Who cares if they do it just for the honey? It promotes bee numbers either way; and if they are doing it as a business they are certainly going to be concerned over their hive’s collective health.
Your argument is a falsehood, wrapped in an opinion, covered in emotion, and packaged in conceit. It lacks logic and any form of actual, objective evidence.
TL;DR: Use whichever hive is best for your situation and don’t let uppity hobbyists ruin it for you.
Shame there are no comments here. So my views: If the bees did not like the plastic they would move. Don’t care for the “be one with the bees” it is a business. Do care about the money. Even time spent now that I’m retired is worth 50 bucks an hour. So that is a weighted thing, along with cost and maintenance of equipment required. jmo.
1. There’s nothing inherently worse about plastic frames. I have seen plenty of videos where the bees accept the flow frames without a fuss. It really is just a matter of preference. You can still have wax foundation in your brood box(es). Furthermore, honey is naturally sound dampening, i.e. bees don’t communicate very well in the honey super whether it’s plastic or was regardless. They will go to the brood box to do waggle dances where there is far less honey and the wax will pick up their vibrations.
2. Flow have stated multiple times that you still need to take care of your bees, follow normal beekeeping practices and perform regular inspections. The flow frames’ entire purpose is to just simplify the honey harvesting process. Everything else should be the same. Personally, I’m MORE likely to spend time with my bees as I can view them through the side observation windows without having to open the hive and disturb them after the normal inspections.
3. I agree on this one, it is expensive for what it is. That said, if you’re an amateur beek, who’s only planning on getting one or two hives and you don’t want to lug heavy frames of honey to a manual extractor (and all the clean-up that’s involved), then I’d say the Flow hive is a worthwhile investment.
Amazing how this old article is allowed to exist and has not been removed. Now the Chinese have copied the hive reducing the price point to just needed the frames available at $US120.
As a first time bee keeper, I have watched maybe 100 hours of videos online from traditional to flow hive and every single one (including the flow people) say you need to look after the brood box just like conventional bee keeping. How on earth did the author of this miss this fact or would an article titled 2 reasons to not use the flow hive not sound as good. Oh wait, one of the reasons was the cost, now thanks to the Chinese this is a moot point as well.
So the objection comes down to using a plastic frame, which the author incorrectly says puts out harmful chemicals. Complete lack of any understanding of food science (sure would not want to eat their honey with such a lack of knowledge about food grade plastic).
Just a bad opinion piece with a lack of research to check if their beliefs are based on facts or emotions. Time to delete this ‘sky is falling’ article because it is not helpful in the slightest to new people interested in helping the bees and getting a little honey as a bonus
What do you think on the Flow Hive 2? Do your 3 claims still apply? They added a small section for pests…
Hi there, hope you and your bees are still fine. I am very interested in a flow hive. Mainly to get more bees into my backyard. The honey would be a bonus on top. I am not a beekeeper and I don’t eat a lot of honey, would you still recommend a flow hive? What is the required maintenance on a hive? Do you need to clean the frames from time to time. Do I have to extract all the honey or just a jar every month or so(that’s probably what I would need at the maximum)?
Thank you very much and all the best.
Clearly worried about the price of honey droping if people start producing there own in an easy cheap way avoiding the ripoff merchants!! It may not be 100% but the lower price and the fact it gets people Interested in need bees is a great thing
I always find it amazing the number of hypocrites in the
world that are willing to express their own ignorance about products and/or
services being “too expensive” and/or “unsustainable” it’s
called Capitalism. Supply and demand. If you own a large beekeeping operation
and can’t justify utilizing this system because of it not being cost effective
to you and your business model, then Don’t do it! Big deal ! Keep doing what
you have always done. Again, it amazes me the perspective or lack thereof. If
you don’t like the price of the Mercedes, don’t buy it! Stop telling everyone
else that they are too expensive! This is a choice people have in the
marketplace because someone developed it and made it available. How does it
help the bee population? Possibly because more novices will get into beekeeping
if even only on a small scale. Stop wasting your breath complaining that it
promotes ignorance and start using that breath to educate people so that there
is less ignorance about the bees and their hives and how it affects the world
around us.
It appears that there is some legitimacy to the plastic vs. natural honeycomb building and the possible signal interference in the communication process between opposite ends of the hive, etc. If you want to attack the product for legitmate concerns then do that. Don’t muddy the water by complaining about the price. The world today seems to compare the value they get with products they purchase at Walmart and give very little if any consideration about the incurred cost of product development and marketing. Lets’ all just go back to making $5.00/hour and see how that pans out for everyone.
This is the best article I have read about the flow hive. Thank you for being respectful and passionate in how you wrote this. I do not own bees but hope some day to and have been following Flow and Tapcomb absolutely “wooed by the hype and the mesmerized”. But I want a connection to the process and I love how you point out you lose this. You become disconnected from how beekeeping should be and that it should be hard work and not “fast food”. Wow. Thank you.
I agree the FlowFrame is overpriced, but most new items usually are. Other than that, this blog is just a bunch of negative nonesense. Plus, relying on quotes from Renée Ricciardi, a photography artist who takes pictures of bees, is just silly. I love Art, but artists don’t feed the world. To answer one of the blogger’s questions, logically, more hives will result in more habitat. More hives by more people means more locations for bees to live, and more people will be concerned about planting more flowering plants and using fewer pesticides. Not to mention, one of the suspected factors in colony collapse is the stress caused by moving bees around as pollinators. Plus, thousands of individual colonies separated by varied distances, will reduce the spread of bee and hive pests (another suspected cause of colony collapse).
This is so one sided, just looking for excuses to make this seem like a bad thing. 1 – Plastic has the same properties as wax and allows the bees to function as normal, including regulating hive temperatures and communicating. 2 – The bees are less disturbed and so you can have a close connection to them without putting them through unnecessary stress. 3 – Yes it’s expensive, that’s because there’s a hell of a lot more work and materials involved in making this as opposed to a traditional hive. This is an investment to make your life easier and to keep bees happier in the long run, a much healthier symbiotic relationship. Do not listen to this article, the flow hive is a wonderful thing.
The frames are BPA free
Thanks, Cleo, for a voice of sanity! You nailed it with this guy…he turned me off & now I want a FloHive…lol!
First off, early in this thread/discussion I said that I could see a place for the Flow Hive system for small time beekeepers only running up to 20 or 30 hives on a site, on a non-migratory and non-commercial basis, where the “Flow” system should be seen as one alternative method (among several..) of extracting the honey crop — so I don’t want to be seen as being opposed outright to the system; (but rather, my opposition is to many of the more ludicrous and fanciful suggestions from a handful of commentators with no practical experience amongst them, and where a couple of those clearly have an eye on possibly marketing the Flow Hive the selves..). The ‘Flow Hive’ system is “price competitive” with other systems for the first couple of dozen hives, but becomes more expensive as the number of hives worked gets up into “sideline” and commercial levels..
Where you are looking at keeping only one hive, I would suggest that 2 or 3 kept together can sometimes be more handy and useful, e.g. when it comes to “balancing” hive populations by taking bees from stronger hives to boost weaker ones; and if later on you might like to play around with making “splits” and/or dabble in a little queen-rearing..
Some ways of keeping bees in urban and suburban locations includes using hedges, shrubs, trees and walls & fences, as barriers to encourage the bees to fly up around 12 feet to 20 feet above the ground — well above head height of people on the ground; and supplying the bees with a source of fresh water nearby, so that they don’t frequent neighbours’ pools and ponds.
Good sources of practical information and education can include local beekeepers’ associations/clubs (where field days may also allow some experience before actually buying hives..), your state/provincial/regional Dept/Ministry of Agriculture, and national beekeeping magazines/journals..
Also, keep in mind that bees do sting, and eventually beekeepers DO get stung, though experience, education and a good ‘strain’ of bees all help to minimise stings…
Plastics may or may not be harmful to honeybees, depending on the situation — sometimes they are; most times they’re neutral (as in hive bodies for example); and they can be usefu at times — e.g. queen cell ‘cups’ for queen rearing, plastic buckets, and using water-based acrylic paints on beehives..
I am thinking about getting a flow hive, so I decided to read some criticism on it to see if there are any problems that I need to take into account or responsibilities that I may have over looked. 90% of this article I can shoot down with facts, or the other size of opinions. We only want 1 have not even close to the 20-30 hives of a bee hobbiest. And there is no way that me and my family want to go into the bee keeping industry. The only thing I got from this article is that plastic might be harmful to the bees, but that’s it. I do belive that they made it sound much easier then it really is, and sugar coated the responsibility that comes with keeping a hive. But every business does that. I’m willing to pay the extra money to get a flow instead of getting a regular hive, because I only want the bees to preduce honey, and pollinateour many fruit trees. The only worry I have about this, is that we live in a very urbanized area, and even though we have a pretty big yard, there is a high possibility that the bees will go over our fence and bother the neighbors. Other then that I have always had a good relationship with bees, and have never gotten stung. I understand bees principle of you don’t bother me I won’t bother you. But I still thinking about whether or not to get a hive, if it would be worth it, but this post was completely moronic, either way we are honey theives, but this one is nicer to everyone for human and bee when it comes to small bee owners
how silly. this is an ARTICLE To prompt discussion> Maybe do a bit of research into the author before spewing stupidy. I am not cantakerous or a vegan. bee keeping is abotu communion not turning the hive into a commodity. Oh now you suddenly care about bees because you can harvest their honey. the honey is the last of it. and it’s THEIRS. REVERENCE.
Well said!!!
unsubscibe
that’s funny. certainly not spitting.
Three reasons to avoid this uniformed tripe.BS, BS and BS.
This article was hard to read because of the attitude of the author…extremism, condescending and almost as if the author was spitting at people.
keep buying these gimmick flow hives and waste your money, most of these purchases will be on ebay or craigs list by 2019.
My take on this is this product is it’s taking away from those who are doing it as a business. Their loss our gain is never good for those who have profited off something for decades.
They have wax. They have propolis. Incidentally the basic ingredients of CocaCola are incredibly bad for your health. Your endorsement of this chemical poison does not build confidence in your reliability regarding a discussion of natural vs. artificial. You also might want to consider how bad the processes for obtaining the chemicals and genetically modified ingredients included in Coke are for the environment, including animal, plant and insect species:
Carbonated tap water – Whatever is in unfiltered municipal water is also in your Coke. The carbonation that is added increases gastric secretions and can make you flatulent.
E150D – This is a food coloring, which is made from processing sugar at certain temperatures. Ammonium sulfate is then added (also a constituent of Round Up Ready Chemicals used by Monsanto). This chemical has been known to increase asthma attacks.
E952 – This is a sugar substitute. It is 200 times sweeter than sugar and can cause your glycemic levels to sky-rocket. This can lead to diabetes, obesity and other diseases.
E950 – This is Acesulfame Potassium, and it aggravates the heart, vascular system, and nervous system. It is especially bad for children and pregnant women.
E951 – Aspartame – A GMO product which can cause seriously negative impact on your body. Symptoms of aspartame poisoning include: unconsciousness, headaches, fatigue, dizziness, nausea, palpitation, weight gain, irritability, anxiety, memory loss, blurry vision, fainting, joint pains, depression, infertility, hearing loss and more. Aspartame can also provoke the following diseases: brain tumors, MS (Multiple Sclerosis), epilepsy, Graves’ disease, chronic fatigue, Alzheimer’s, diabetes, mental deficiency and tuberculosis. Later, this substance was initially illegal due to its dangers but was again made legal in a suspicious manner.
E338 – Orthophosphoric Acid – This causes skin and eye irritation, and can interfere with your body’s ability to absorb calcium, causing osteoporosis.
E330 – Citric Acid – This is preservative that is also used in the medical field for preserving blood. In small doses it is fine, but in large doses it can eat away at your stomach and esophageal lining.
Aromas – Unknown aromatic additives.
E211 – Sodium Benzoate – According to a study completed by Peter Piper at the Sheffield University in Britain, sodium benzoate can harm DNA.
(Courtesy of naturalsociety dot com)
Who’s being emotional? And vulgar? And ranting?
Nice. Resorting to insults. Typical of persons whose arguments lack substance.
This was fucking abysmal as a critique article. Purism and conservatism wrapped into a “I don’t like it because it allows anyone to do it and that makes me feel personally threatened”, necessitating some kind of bull about bee communion and a straight up spiritual approach to beekeeping where, conveniently, only conventional bee keepers are the shamans.
Wow- what an elitist article. Your “reasons” for not using flow are just plain silly and extreme. The products you hawk on this site are worse than the supposed plastic used in flow, and the trauma from smoking and harvesting honey traditionally is harmful to bees- far worse than flow.
???????????????? Well said.
Juan Garriga patent to Flow Hive created 1940 patent US2223561
Mature honey pours slowly and steadily – how else do you empty the centrifuge? If robbing is a problem, which it can be, simply cover the jars with cloth or clingfilm which solves the issue. This gimmick works for me and my bees.
The writer of this article should stop using cars since it is not environmentally friend and should start walking since that was the way it was done before, and you get to commune with nature while at it.
I love my meat. And tough luck to the slaughterd animals. I do have empathy for them but, ‘one is all and all is one.”
He sounds as if bees love being smoked.
Too ideological!
what a load of sanctomonious bullshit!
I’m a card carrying hippie, hate plastic in all it’s forms etc etc etc but the basis on which the authors views are based are pathetic. simply conjecture! all those prophesised lazy urban trendies ‘robbing’ the bees…. pffftt!
I have a lot more point by point criticism of the garbage i read here but I got better things to do with my time
thanks for nothing homies
The bees do thinly cover the plastics with wax & they still produce propolis to seal seams, corners of the frames & box. The brood box below is where they lay eggs, undisturbed, upper superbox is where they store honey, also undisturbed if you use flowhive. Do you like to disturb your bees? Get real, get your facts right, do some research first before commenting.
When our great grandfathers started to farm bees inside a box, there are honey robbers that used to rob hives in trees and rock crevices in nature. These honey robbers resent the idea of farming bees in boxes. They say bad things about the new honey box farmers. This article is just the same thing repeated from ages ago.
Get real it’s NOT good. Why are people going back to organic food . You must have shares in this product ..
Wow, my feeling exactly. Such an angry post to find just when I’ve discovered beekeeping, and started to get excited about it. I do intend to attend the (traditional) beekeeping course that I’ve signed up for to gain the respect and relationship to bees, but as always with my internet research, I have to come across bitter opinions. Seeing the Flow Hive video is what actually caught my attention, piqued my interest, and started my research.
Get real everybody the bee has been around for thousands of years and you think by outsmarting the bee’s and putting artificial plastic is good ? Really !
No Wax No Propolis ?
I am a bee keeper and I will never use anything artificial.
Try drinking coke out of Glass bottle and then try Plastic ?
This is irrational and just sounds like the author is envious and intolerant. Keep your personal feelings out of reviews, this review is 100% personal opinion with very little fact. I respect you want to be a natural bee keeper, good for you. Not everyone is like you I hate to say, and you should not be appalled in that fact. The facts are that there is little to no negative effect on the bees with the the Flow Hive, and it has a huge upside of more interest in beekeeping.
I appreciate the sentiment however it works for me. I love my flowhive and so do the bees apparently.
1. Without the Flowhive I would not keep bees.
2. I have raw natural honey and pollen from my area which I am hoping will combat my hayfever (jury’s out on this atm)
3. A semi retired beekeeper is helping me and other back-yarders with our hives and this gentleman (he really is one of nature’s gentlemen) is spreading his knowledge and love of bees.
4. The flowhive system may not be perfect but nothing is.
Your points;
1. Plastic – What doesn’t come in plastic these days?
2. Communion? Its about the same level of communion I have with the cattle on my farm.
3. Gimmick? So far I have harvested about 25kg of honey over 2 seasons. At retail that if about $400 (AUD) of supermarket grade honey. I don’t know but that is probably closer to $600 of health food store honey. We need more gimmicks like this.
I bought a flow hive, I had always wanted to keep bees, I’ve just come home from my first 3 hour workshop of 6 over the next 6 weeks… don’t panic as most flow hive purchasers HAVE to engage with real ‘bee people’ to get the bees to go in their hive. The langstroth may be cheaper and easier… but he didn’t run a crowd funding phenomenon… give those interested enough to fork out $600 some credit about wanting to see that work for them, turning a handle is a novelty, ultimately it’s created more interest in bees and beekeeping, that can only be good.
I am a regular beekeeper with one flow frame box. I can tell you that the bees did as good a job with the flow as they did with the regular frames. Not to mention, most beekeepers use plastic foundations so your whole “they don’t like plastic” thing is kinda wishy washy.
All the people hating in the flow have not tried it. All I can tell you is I was able to check my honey one day, then come back and harvest with the family the next without suits. It was ultra easy.
I live in a cold climate, some of the remaining honey has already cristallized I it. I tested that they can be cracked and still moved after (with some work). The bees will clean that all out in spring time again.
Try it before you say you don’t believe something works well.
thats exactly what i just said, i didnt see this comment sorry karen!
one can buy just the flow hive part and place on top of the current 10 frame brood box or honey super which costs less than 200 per kit (this is just the 7 honey flow frams for a 10 frame box) what is wrong with that?
Wow lots of bots here, I wonder why my comment got deleted and their comments can stay?
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huh it’s more about the plastic being toxic to the bees and not about it being bad for the honey
yes it is in Australia, that is accurate
I am a hobby beekeeper. I have 2 hives…one flow, one standard. Both require maintenance, love, husbandry.
I, for one, love my flow hive. It’s my healthiest hive. The first one I have overwintered successfully here in Nebraska.
My flow frame sits on top of 2 supers full of brood and honey.
Also, you can buy just the flow frames and use with a standard hive, lessening the expense of start up quite a bit. No matter how you slice it, bees take time, attention, muscle, patience, and money…unless someone gives you everything you need to get started.
I have videos on IG for those with a true interest in seeing a flow hive from a strictly hobby beekeeper.
@thefitquilter
Anne
Job Opportunities at Marriott Hotel Canada, If you are interested Contact us immediately on this email address { david.raymond26@yahoo.com } for more details
I’m not a flow hive fan, I have one Langstroth hive and will have more. This article brings up some points I agree with, for instance, the hive is made of plastic. What do you do when something breaks? How much honey will you have to destroy to fix it? Are the parts recyclable? How long will parts be available after they have stopped making them, because this turns out to be a short lived fad?
The honey deposited is evaporated in the hive. Will it evaporate as well in a plastic hive or will you always get watery honey?
Does the flow hive discourage hive beetles? Wax moths? No one has addressed these questions that I know of.
Plus I AM fascinated by my bees. I could watch them for hours and I enjoy opening the hive (not too often) and seeing their work. So as a beekeeper, I WANT the hands on experience.
Then there is the cost. $700 for one hive. I think not.
But this article reads like a sour-grapes piece. It has some valid concerns, but it’s not really very objective.
“But just because no disturbance can be viewed by the naked eye doesn’t mean the bees aren’t being disturbed. How arrogant humans can be.”
Just because you’re assuming a specific (most harmful) method of use doesn’t mean that is how a product should be used.
How pretentious some Luddites can be!
So, for fun, I’ll answer in kind!
The assumption that a tool specifically for harvesting honey would somehow corrupt the rest of the “good beekeeping” process strikes me as a serious mental disconnect. If a keeper decides not to harvest honey that season, do they stop inspecting the hive? No… why would the introduction of a honey extraction tool change the manner in which you monitor your hive’s health, or checking in on the queen. There’s some serious equivocation going on here.
When the flow hive is used in only the harvest (top) portion of the hive it is, demonstrably, fine. If you’re using your flow hive on the bottom portion to house brood, you’ve seriously misunderstood the intent of the product, and how bee’s live in general.
Honey collection is easily the most time consuming, messy, daunting, and harmful task to a hive. The comb destroyed either directly or by accident during the extraction takes a HUGE amount of energy for the bees to reconstruct.
Because of the nature of this process, I’m sure it’s a major deterrent for many responsible, but no less time-taxed be keepers. This seemingly minor convince could open up a whole new segment of otherwise responsible bee keeping.
TL:DR
it’s fine.
Use it responsibly.
yes, it’s expensive.
If you’re a bad bee keeper, you’ll be bad at it no matter what.
(That was a fun lunch diversion.)
Its may have its pros and cons,i see no problem with increasing the number of hives even without supervising and knowing anything about bees.its just like adding beehives into the wild only difderence is the habitat is dwindling away and being replaced by hives in urban areas.this will improve bee populations,after all who monitors health of bees that live in the wild.the bonus will be more bees and the keeper who is clueless gets some honey for his or her troubles i see nothing wrong.i do adore the purists but how many purists can we have to make a significant rise in bee population?
Look it’s Jesus
How do you motivate a lazy or aging queen…
what a horribly negative post. sounds like someone is jealous or just plain bored to tears. please stop griping and living a miserable existence.
As an old beekeeper I agree with you ! 100%
Having both the hive and frames I would say in hindsight I would not have bought their bottom board, their brood box, any of the extras….just the frames and super…if I knew wood working I would not buy even the box next time…
Flow does not encourage beekeeping without study. if people choose to be ignorant when starting such a hobby venture, that is on them. I learned of the Flow before it was on the market and began research a year in advance of getting it and my bees….
Yes, the ‘cean’ harvest process with honey that has not been heated at all…strained only if one wants to….bottled immediately….far more healthy.
1. A lot of bee keepers use plastic.
2. One is not having to open the hive, smoke the hive…so while bees may be disturbed in noting their honey is gone, uncapping..ect there is still far less disruption of their day to day.
3. Yes it is expensive and would probably not be the choice of a business beekeeper…but for a hobbiest it may be.
I have flows and expect to harvest this year..I also have a second hive with a super containing wax frames….I like have the option of both and to be able to compare…
It makes no sense of discussing much with you. You’re not open-minded enough to go past the human ego. Not just you, most of us are, but I’ll just paste here a link of lecture, just in case. I highly recommend you watch it. I don’t wanna float you with technical research, so it’s entirely up to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x18TCKpS-4I
That’s exactly the answer of someone who cannot confront with facts.
It was obvious from the beginning.
You’re obviously quite mentally numb and try to invent justification for your personal atrocities.
Just to remind you, many vegans for example fruitarians, eat the fruit after it falls from the tree.
Remember that most of the plants rely on other species to pick up their fruits or seeds in order to spread them, as plants cannot move. It’s part of their nature, and yes they don’t sense pain. There is no single evidence stating they sense pain, while there is no single evidence stating that animals don’t sense pain.
Have you ever seen a plant screaming one picking up its fruit?
On the hand,
Have you ever seen an animal willingly giving you its throat to kill it and not trying to avoid it?
Try killing a fly, would it stand still and let you do it, if it could?
When you eat peach, you peach, you usually don’t eat it’s pit and put it back in nature. Plants are designed so by nature. They produce millions and billions of seeds and pits so that some of them can survive by being transported mostly by living species.
If you don’t harvest wheat, it will just either fall or be eaten at sometime by other creatures or just decompose.
How can you be that manipulative and ignorant creating such fake and cheap justification?
You obviously can’t control your own desires, which is quite sad, but don’t become another cheap preacher.
I understand what you say, it could be true in case I buy the flow hive and decide how to keep, but how am I supposed to know if a commercial producer does that?
An acquaintance of mine used to deliver trucks of sugar to commercial hives, as they exploit the bees to the max. He was strictly asked to keep its name secret. He never told me the name of the company, but it was so.
This is the main issue for me and obviously for Maxine, as we need to know that bees are not fully exploited.
I know a lot about biology and medicine. Not mentioning my qualifications. All creatures tend to survive, but not all have the same nerve-system.
Eating plants is the least harmful option on many levels.
I’m pretty sure that you do know that, but unable to admit it to yourself.
I agree that science doesn’t know everything. You also can’t expect it. It’s an evolution of hundreds of millions of years and science have only had it’s major advancement in the last century.
According to spirituality, all material have soul. But even then, it differs from sensing pain.
According to quantum physics, we could be living in a simulation, in which mind is over matter.
In every case, keeping your conscience dead toward the pain or other animals can’t be justified anyhow.
Just because you like animal products doesn’t give you the right to end their life.
I surely cannot force you or force anyone to become more self-conscious. Either you become that aware by yourself and do it from your own freewill or you don’t.
It’s you choice, it’s your karma.
How much honey is left for them in percentage?
Do you have any idea about honey production? let me give you a quick lesson, the flow hive have 2 broad box one to hold the frame that the bees will build they honeycomb, and the flow hive system where us human extract honey. In short after you harvest the honey from the flow hive they always honey in broad box for the bee to feed on.
they wanna bee cool they don’t realize without bees they veggies will cease to exist.
Hysterical Claptrap. The flow hive is brilliant for bees and the people using it 🙂
Nice to hear from someone who actually has experience with the hive! I too am a conscientious steward of bees and think this would be a wonderful option as we get older. We used 2 honey supers over the brood, 1 for us and 1 for the bees – is it possible to do this with the Flow Hive or do you simply stop collecting early enough in the season to leave them plenty? I’m in Canada so a shorter season than some
Try the Whole30 program for allergies – that is working for me where pollen and raw honey have failed.
I find it odd that most of the comments to this post do not address the incorrect information about Flow hive owners and their regular communion with their bees. I have a Flow hive, I also have two Langstroths, a Langstroth/Top Bar hybrid, and another Top Bar coming this month. The interaction I have with my bees in the Langstroths and the Flow is essentially the same–I open the brood box (they are identical between a Lang and a Flow), I look for the queen, check the status of the brood, pollen and honey, monitor mites and hive beetles, and generally enjoy the beauty that is my bees. The EXTRA honey that they produce goes into the super with the specific Flow mechanism. Nothing else is different about the hive or the way I interact with it. As for the complaint about plastic, what about the plastic foundation frames for Langs? And what about the concerns with using commercial wax foundation that might have pesticide residue in it from commercial beekeeping/pollinating? What an unfortunate, ignorant article about an invention that served to engage thousands of people in the life of bees!
Uh, when the drones have finished their business they explode in the process. The drones in the hive are driven off in winter by the workers who no longer have the resources to feed them.
you know, i know this is an old article and you’re probably not paying attention anymore, but i feel like giving my two cents anyway. honestly as a new beekeeper, you’re the one who comes off as a dick. assuming that we don’t know what we’re doing, that we haven’t researched, that we’re greedy and careless and only in it for the honey and that we are all just after some shortcut that allows us to bypass all the special amazing spiritually-fulfilling environmentally-conscious hard work that comes from having hives is condescending and gross. nothing john said is wrong. the fact is, i’m not primarily into beekeeping to sing kumbaya and get spiritually fulfilled “communing” with them, since the bees, frankly, give exactly zero shits about my happiness. instead i’m in it to have healthy pollinators for the orchard and garden we inherited in our rural rental, as well as to help the health of the ecosystem for miles around, and to observe firsthand an incredibly fascinating species and mode of life with which we share the planet. we love our hives, and the ease of harvesting the honey is just a bonus. to call us “hipsters” or imply that we’re just following some fad and don’t want to do the REAL work of REAL beekeepers because we’re lazy uninformed terrified-of-being-stung callous dummies is pretty shitty, lady. sorry not sorry bout it.
it doesn’t harm the bees and it doesn’t promote over-extraction. i AM a beekeeper and our flow hives are happy and healthy. the plastic frames are bisphenol-free and free of andro-and estrogen agonists. they are actually more inert than most wax frames that you can get, which are often full of pesticides (and depending on where you are, even the combs built by your own bees will build up toxins since you can’t control what your neighbors within a 2-mile radius are spraying). we have less bee deaths than with a traditional hive. the flow frames are in the super only – the brood box is never harvested – and you can harvest them one at a time and leave as much as you like for your bees. this idea that “new” beekeepers are rapacious greedy assholes only in it for the honey who aren’t actually interested in, you know, KEEPING BEES, is condescending and gross. drop the holier-than-thou attitude and be happy that more people are getting interested in having hives because a system exists where the harvesting process is no longer as intimidating as it used to be.
seriously. what is even up with the disdain for new beekeepers? we got a flow hive because we want pollinators for the orchard and garden we inherited when we moved into our rural rental. we’re interested in learning all we can about bees, we love the process of caring for them (which, um, you STILL HAVE TO DO, including wearing a bee suit and opening up the hive occasionally to check its health), and the honey harvesting process with the flow hive, as a bonus, is much less intrusive and much easier than using a traditional extraction method. we’re not “hipsters” and we’re not “greedy honey-robbers”. eesh. the condescension in this article is palpable and gross. sorry that “communing with the bees” isn’t my primary objective; our bees are happy and healthy and frankly don’t care at all about whether i get spiritual fulfillment from them. it’d be nice if people didn’t just knee-jerk hate on something just because it isn’t the crunchy-granola-ier-than-thou back-to-nature 1800s-style “traditional” thing. ESPECIALLY when it’s obvious they haven’t actually tried it, and have some fundamental misunderstandings as to how it works and what motivates the people who HAVE.
just use a queen excluder to make sure that the super only contains honey.
maxine and jack – we have a flow hive and we love it. it works, it’s a less intrusive honey-harvesting process, and as such it causes less disturbance to the hive than the traditional method of extracting frames from the super where you have to pry open the box, remove the whole super, pull the frames out, etc. and only the super has the “flow” frames; the brood box is not harvested – you do check and maintain the brood box as normal. moreover, each “flow” frame can be drained individually – you don’t have to drain all of them at a time and can leave as much honey as you like for your girls to eat over the winter. the flow frames are made from bisphenol-free compounds and do not contain estro- or androgenic compounds either. they are actually often more inert than the wax guide frames often used in langstrom hives, which can contain large amounts of pesticides in the wax. hope this helps!
that price is inaccurate. we got our entire system (base, traditional langstrom brood box w/ frames, queen excluder, super w/flow frames, and roof, all of it) for $700. of course you do have to get bees from somewhere, and if you want a feeder to start that also costs, but the initial cost for the entire hive isn’t “over $900”. see the website for accurate pricing information, please.
No commercial beekeepers would immediately switch to something new, and these Flow Hives, from what I’ve seen, are as fully accessible as normal hives.
Wind you neck in.
This article reads as through it was written by a bitter hipster and I found it hilarious that there was a “natural doctor” supplement ad in the middle of it. Hypocrite. There’s nothing natural about them.
I’ve seen the videos on YouTube and I immediately become interested in beekeeping. I’ve probably watched about 100 videos so far and I’m finding it fascinating. I actually don’t care for honey that much. I mean, it’s ok, but I don’t know what I’d do with 6 gallons of honey from a single Flow Hive.
I’m sure Flow Hives, if anything, can only be good for bees.
what happens to the eggs and the larva- pupa that stay on these cells?
Hi Maxine,
just a short answer regarding your son’s hay fever allergies.
I’ve treated in the past as a hypnotherapist several people with allergies including hay fever with excellent success.
I’m not doing it now, as I’m in a different field, but I advise you to consult a good hypnotherapist, especially those who know how to use NLP methods. A good one might be able to solve the allergy issue of your son relatively in short time.
Good luck
I am exactly the same as you. I came on here to research if the bees are harmed in the process. I have been vegan for 12 years now but probably once or twice a year have raw honey. I wanted to get some for my son’s hayfever allergies so was looking for info on the different methods of beekeeping. I still haven’t had a satisfactory answer in either direction.
Everyone take a deep breath and count to 10. I’m going to get one because I think it’s a cool idea to have bees in my back yard. F*** anything else.
Yet another example of purists preventing people from taking up a vastly needed undertaking. How’s the view from that high horse?
You might be different. I sadly know several bee keepers who are different and leave row sugar after taking the bees honey completely.
So if ethics were to lead humans, we would have seen no wars and no human who is not vegan.
In reality and right now, only the minority of humans is in control of its bodily desires, the rest are being controlled.
As I mentioned, as long as the law of “Live and let live” applies, I have no issue with anything.
It’s just that the majority doesn’t care about any “others”, all they care about is filling their own pockets with more money, just like arms industries.
The usual cheap argument of those who aren’t in control of their desires.
Have you heard of a plant nerve-system.
They do have self-defense mechanism, as no living species on earth wants to die freely, but they do not sense pain as animals of all kinds do.
So please, if you’re not able to control your desires that lead you to murder other species, at least control your desires not to invent justification for the murder by using unilateral self-deceptive arguments, which are supposed to keep your conscience lame for long time to come.
I don’t envy you, neither your health now or in the future, but I do have empathy with all murdered animals, who were murdered just to satisfy the desire- and ego-driven creatures called humans.
Perfect example on why evolution through technology isn’t always good (people may think evolution stays still because of that, but that’s not true it’s just not the visible part that changes) it’s really hard to put this “idea” into words, but with such an example I’m sure everyone can understand
It’s like:
Human mind + tool + confrontation of an idea (harvesting honey, why you should show respect, stuff like that) = good
human (no mind, because process is simplified by pressing a button [human acts externally like a robot]) + (no tool since I see a tool as something that is getting used and not to work by istelf) + No confrontation (you may not think so, but that’s the most important part, this wisdoms vanishes over generations if it gets “unimportant”)
These kinda things are always the same, because their priority in design lays always on efficiency, a problem of capitalism.
(The sales pitch of the Flow-Hive is just marketing, of course profit could also lead to healthier ideas, never saw something like that tho.
Lately people really like to go green/bio by theirself even if it’s more expensive, but those people are the ones that get manipulated by this exact sales pitch boom! makes all sense now right? I wonder how long it takes [in my country] to create restrictions if a trend comes by like “100% natural” [food n stuff] so that it actually has to be some regulated thing and actually be true, of course it’s hard to do that to products in general like “you may not have a subjective standpoint in your ad campaign” and will never happen… I forgot what I wanted to say, probably that this is a thing that happens all the time and can’t be stopped, it’s the road we have choosen oh right and that companies use every mousehole in laws and that for example a “100% natural” 30 steak can be a 12€ mass production from a sad life, but at least something like that actually get regulated somehow)
I saw all these things but never could write down anything, but it seems like the natural way for life is to actually live in coexistence with everything else, thinking about it, it’s logical
Iif we distance ourselves from all that, we aren’t part of it anymore and just like an enemy to this planet, like a parasyte but in bigger scale, of course the way could still change direction but it doesn’t seem like that.
Before I knew all that I had a dream about God (I’m Atheist, but I believe God is in everything, since God is existence itself [for me] the Universe, like, there is life [external minds] and matter and when life dies it returns to matter and is connected to everything again, like a flower that grows and rots on the same place) I was driving in a bus and God sat beside me so I asked him what he thinks about humanity, he said that nothing matters as long as the end is good.
I believed it to be the Universe or the the God withing me, since I understood that we all are the same, just lived different lifes.
hope I haven’t forgotten anything,
wow ur just full of shit m8.. my god what a load of shit, bees are dying out because of humans and one guy comes up with away to help both side of the same coin and your acting like a true blown bitch!!!! get a life do it your own way if you like but don’t try to shit on a good thing. your garbage and have a nice day.
I’ll use the Flow hive, and I can be involved with my hive as much as I want to. Thank you very much.
I agree, it’s like the Langstrothought hive is rather large and very much like the taxesound of governmental largesse.
The frames are individually taken off so its very easy to leave honey for the bees. Its not in the bee keepers interests for the bees in the hive to all die at any time , no bee keeper wants that. By hunger or disease
Not if you are only taking the overproduction rather than what they need for winter.
Thank you!
Hi Jordan its been a while since I first posted my opinions about the Flow Hive and since then I have seen first hand, several of these hives that have been set up by local beekeeping associations on the south coast of nsw. For your patients with mild stroke and other mobility issues I would recommend not the Flow HIve system because it is not a hive in itself and is fitted into traditional Langstroth Hives and Warre Hives. With the hives the ongoing management of them is not lessened by fitting them with the flowing tap system for honey extraction. There is still lifting of heavy boxes in both those hives mentioned. For people with mild mobility/strength issues, I would recommend the Kenyan Top Bar Hive as there is not lifting of fully laden boxes of honey. Instead there are only individual frames. If you Google Kenyan Top Bar you will see a single layer hive which has a lid and when harvesting honey, this is really the most simple type of hive. All the best
I am intrigued about Flow Hive as I have been seeking a way for future patients who have had a mild stroke or traumatic brain injury can have a way to feel useful and even earn small amounts of money. If Flow Hive made it easier (or one of the variations on Ebay), then this would mean training and having patients maintain hives has suddenly become feasible. If anyone would be willing to advise on setting this up, let me know. This would not happen until 2018 so if someone sees this post in a year, please feel free to comment.. or connect now so we can have resources ready!
You really failed to give a single not to buy this technology. Seriously wasted your time with this article. I don’t find a single argument you presented to be convincing.
Attacking vegans my friend is a self-justification for those who lack on sufficient morals and ethics to control their uncontrolled desires.
Wish more power to deal with your own untamed ignorant desires.
I am vegan and I’m not intrusive as most non-vegans are.
I consume honey only in cases of a having a flu, as part of some plant-based drink treatment. Otherwise I don’t consume it.
The reason I don’t was mentioned here by one of the ethical persons; because most beekeepers exploit the winter-food of the bees to the max, so many bees die of hunger afterwards.
We have a say here “Take half of the honey and leave them the rest”.
If I would be sure, it is the case and not greed is leading, I have no problem with. If a beekeeper would keep half of the honey for the bees, I also have no problem with. It’s “Live and let live”.
And by the way, honey isn’t the nectar from flowers collected by bees, it is their cud regurgitated from its rumen.
I think that when producing this Flowhive, two modifications should be made:
1. Produce it from durable glass instead, which is relatively inert and has no chemical issues.
2. Redesign it to keep some of the honey unextracted for survival of bees.
If both issues are addressed, most of the negative aspects of this invention would be invalid.
Point 1 seems valid. The other two sound like sour grapes.
Anyhow, I am going to try and build a top loader for free – they sound great!
The flow hive cells are slightly deeper, so bees will not choose to put larvae in them. And if it’s capped honey, there won’t be any adult bees either.
Try this new thingamajig out????! While your at it, why not learn more about beekeeping. It wouldn’t hurt to have a traditional hive either would it? You say your fruit production is down? Try planting some patches of wild and other flowers that bees love around your property to help the bees out. I’ve just finished reading an article about bees dieing off because of pesticide spraying for mosquitoes due to the Zika virus. Roundup is another culprit used by alot of property management companies and lawn care companies for vegetation control of “weed problem” areas. Stop using this (not saying you are) if you care about keeping bees around to help pollinate your fruit trees and the planets food supply. Food for thought????
The frames don’t fit into standard hive(s), need modification and its tedious. Not worth it.
The wax cap stays on and the honey flows into a channel inaccessible to the bees.
They are plastic and can be washed clean.
If at first you don’t succeed quit. ????
The cheap way to harvest a backyard hive is mash the comb and filter it with a mesh bag.
The Flow Hive is BPA free. The guys who invented it are long time beekeepers. Do you think they are stupid and wouldn’t consider that?
Use a queen excluder on top of the brood box it is recommended with the flow hive.
Will , a queen excluder is recommended with the flow hive.
I have two hives with one super using Flow hive frames and boxes. One hive the bees have not filled with honey at all and the other hive the bees have filled three frames fully. I have noticed that the bees need to be smoked as they are not as dumb as I thought !
The bees come out at the back of the Flow Hive when the lever hole is uncovered and they know that the lever going in is an invader.
They also know that the thing in the white bee suit has something to do with it.
They buzzed and told me they know their honey is being removed !
And then chased me and stung me a couple of times to let me know they were not happy.
However it takes time for the honey to flow to the bottom of the flow hive and you need to elevate the hive to 15 degrees which is not advertised but is in the flow hives documentation. I am using a hydralic car jack to achieve this elevation.
I have a box on top of the flow hive with honey comb and I do not remove all the bees honey so I left them with the frames above and the two outside frames on either side of the flow hive frames box. 3 frames out of 5 frames plus I left whatever was above the box and below it.
I have to inspect the brood box today.
in my view another pertinent aspect the bee keepers must keep in mind while using flow hives is that it acts against bees assigned task by nature.normally a bee fills the cell and then seals it with wax–this has been their routine for centuries–but with flow hives the cells never get filled-what ever honey is stored gets flown out from other end of the cell which would ultimately disturb the bees routine and chances are that after some times the bees might abandon such cells or the entire hive for being some thing abnormal.
I am a backyard beekeeper, have a 4 frame flow hive and I LOVE it. I’m almost 70 and have kept bees for years (just a hive or 2) but it’s hard on me (and my girlzzz) to pull frames and deal with the mess of cutting comb etc. I think this review is just a bad case of ~almond honey~ (the bee’s Sour Grapes!!) I got almost a HALF GALLON of honey from just one frame in about 30 minutes!! As far as price, that will come down as time progresses…(I’m old…I’ve seen that happen before!!)
So commercial operations that take all the honey, and feed a cocktail of antibiotics, fungusides, and freaking sugar water is better. I would call the Langstroth hive the original perpatraitor of theivery and greedy owners.
Well that’s why “Vegan” was mentioned with such a negative connotation.
Wow, your point was lost in your superior tone, and negativity. Just because these bees are not living in the exact situation that mimics nature, by the way neither are yours, does not mean that it is impossible that the Flow Hive doesn’t add to the vitality of the global bee environment. We could just let them fend for them-selves in the same bee environment that the bee keepers who came before us built. Which is collapsing like Rome.
More homes for bees, budding new beekeepers who plant bee, and other pollinator , friendly plants, and money/awareness flooding into the community is just such a terrible thing. I hypothesize that it might just irritate you that you have been working far too hard, getting far too small a result, when you do extract honey you probably accidentally kill a bunch of bees, then you proceed to destroying the whole chemical history of the hive, and all while a bunch of hobby farm yuppies do all you do in minutes.
But you keep being a negative old bee keeper; one day your bees are probably going to be living my flow hive while you stand around your thousands of dollars of extraction equipment and complain, and I’ll be standing out behind my hive with my son eating fresh honey without using a bee suit. Suck it haters. ( Speaker drops mic, and walks off)
Lmao.. Seriously? You’re taking things too far with your nonsense. ”
Non-Existent Communion Between Bees & Beings” The people pushing the bee colony mentioned it only benefits for easy harvesting and doesn’t void other activities for taking care of bees. You should go work for fox. Kill some brain cells, fuel a war with oblivious paranoia.
After reading this I think it’s a lot of professional bee keepers getting scared their honey profit will go down.
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Well that just wasted 10 minutes of my life of on a non relevant, almost off topic rant.
You completely and utterly missed what the point of this product was about. Making it easier for the average person to have a hive and therefore increase bee numbers. This in point of fact would be me and the many many others who are like me and find joining your “cool club” a bit too much hassle, where this hive idea does address some of those points. I just want a hive I can leave in my garden and just harvest the honey when required without too much hassle because I have little time as it is.
Absolutely nothing in this blog of negativity was aimed at addressing that other, (and I will concede you this) the effect plastic has on the hive. Does it kill the bees? No evidence. Does it make the honey poisonous? No evidence there either. Is it aimed at industrial market? No, but I would imagine a few farmers strapped for time would think this a good idea too.
Dont bother replying, wont be back, your too bee cool for me.
Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Also, fix your freaking site. Interrupting me with your stupid lightbox asking for my email every time I scroll a single pixel is pretty damn annoying (just like this article written by a honey has-been).
I think when you look at the life cycle costs and labour costs the math will look different. My logic also indicates that when the bees don’t hev to build comb from scratch the number of harvests per year could increase to two or three, in the tropics where climate is not an issue.
I will try again, plastics and their bi-products called BPA’s are detrimental to all kinds of cell division during the first six weeks of pregnancy, this has been known about since the late 1800’s, these chemicals leach out into food from most kinds of plastics, in very small amounts which build up in the tissues of bees and humans. The bees can smell this chemical and why they are reluctant to farm in plastic combs.
It is a trait that the one percent rely upon, and bugger the bees who do all of the work.
There is nothing lucididic about human bees are controlled, it’s just like a hive with energy of the masses on tap, the honey may be free, but this invention is open to abuse by potential thieves or greedy owners who would take all of the honey like taxes from government and let the bees go without, I think it’s a bad idea period, gimmicky and lazy.
The whole debate of for and against has been missed out. The plastic combs have one negative which everyone needs to know about, plastic and I mean all plastics leach a chemical that is detrimental to humans, namely BISPHENOL A, or BPA for short, the scientist have known about this bi-product of plastic since the late 1800’s and its ability to alter the development of a child within its first few weeks of life, in other words it’s detrimental to human life period, best keep away from plastics altogether.
Excellent read on this topic:
http://patrick.freivald.com/2015/04/26/my-thoughts-on-the-flow-hive/
I think this person has completely missed the point here. Firstly, Plastic is and has been commonly used with beekeeping for some time now. Many people use it in the foundations in traditional hives over wax. Is it better? I don’t know, but still this is nothing new! I have even heard people say that the Flow Hive plastic tends to be received better by the bees since they are not completely filled and the bees add their wax over the frames better than a traditional plastic foundation. Secondly, this in no way prevents beekeepers from interacting with bees! I am a Naturalist and use the hives as a way of teaching conservation. I still open the hives, inspect regularly and do maintenance, as even the Flow Hive websites states as MANDATORY for keeping any bees! The Flow Hive just takes some of the added work off the table when harvesting the honey, which I don’t really need since it’s not what I got the hive for, might as well make it easier. As far as it being expensive, yes it is pricey, but so is traditional beekeeping! This was not made for the companies who have 100s of hives. It was made for the average person who wants to keep bees but has a full time job. I think it helps the average person become more interested in bees, since if you pay for it, you’re going to want to take care of your investment, and helps them to understand the process. I understand being concerned about these hives but I think this article was just a hate piece about something new. Is it better than traditional beekeeping? Probably not. Is it going to cause 100s of people to buy hives and not care for them and cause the collapse of beekeeping as we know it!? NO. Get over yourself.
We’ve been looking into Flow Hive’s for our new venture into rural farming. My wife and I just purchased a small 8 acre farm and will be moving from the city to attempt a life at micro farming. I’ve been watching video’s on both the older method and the flowhive method and have decided to go with flow hive since it seems to remove many of the invasive steps to retrieve honey from the old method. Fine we don’t get the wax. Yes we have to inspect the brood for fungi and illness. But the fact that we can start with a small hive and go straight to the jar without having to uncap frames and disrupt the hive is brilliant for us. We don’t need to invest in centrifugal machines or kill bees to retrieve the honey.
The flips side to amateurs taking this up is that it will hopefully offset some of the decline in bee populations due to colony collapse. Why would you want to discourage people from trying to increase bee populations. This is a great way for people to get introduced to bee keeping and might be a gateway to larger operations for some. Why be so negative and dream up really frivolous points of contention when there are so many benefits to this innovation. I get the feeling that bee keepers are upset by this in the same way Taxi drivers are upset by Uber.
We’re going to start next year with one hive and then go from there. Wish us luck.
I wonder if this is exactly the sort of sentiment that the old purist bee keepers had 200 years ago when the traditional fixed comb hives were being replaced by this fancy new fad and gimmick of movable comb hives.
Come on everyone, lets use some facts.
Every household in Britain had a few beehives? don’t think so.! there are only so many plants in flower at one time, and that sort of stocking rate isn’t possible. Old skep hives they used to use in the really old days weren’t great for disease control or monitoring, and the hive was destroyed many times when harvesting, due to lack of removable combs.
“it is a requirement to attend a recognised course in Australia- No, it isn’t, most states want you to register your hives, a(not attend a course) nd you get the resources of the ag dept for disease detection, but most old school backyard italians and greeks (who know a lot about beekeeping) don’t register.
Lets use facts, not supposition
Commercial beekeepers won’t be rushing into this, but observing. A well set up commercial operation harvests honey pretty efficiently, and there could be three supers on top of a strong hive, which i’m not sure how this system would handle, especially if you are in Tasmania where a lot of beekeepers use ideal or half height frames. The stickies (combs) usually go back onto hives for a year or two before being melted down
Great idea for the backyarder, but economics and production efficiencies won’t let this take off in the commercial world
Approach it any way you want, just all stop preaching to each other.
“This just makes honey collection simpler and easier”. There we go!!
Want some cool tips, send out some youtube links on the tecnoligias created by a Brazilian beekeeper, he can create a condominium system, 3 queens in a hive in a single hive produces 150kg of honey, worth checking out.
He developed all this in one of the poorest regions of Brazsil and transmit their knowledge to all of us, and share with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyDd9HMwhMM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPUBpJ2VdNw
I think you’re right, friend, that’s what I said, new technologies are difficult to swallow, these types of discussions are important because they help us to better understand the product and the process, after all I have a degree in production engineering and management, for you an idea developed a beeswax made of paper a3, printer paper, bathes it in wax and honey out much clearer than using the normal beeswax, and you can change every time you want, see what cool technology and sustainable. The most important thing is not honey, pollen, propolis, but the bees, to keep them alive, as Albert Einstein would say if we stay without bees would not last four days.
The great battle should be against Monsanto and Bayer, Roundoup and Arsenal, those are the great enemies.
As for the Flow Hive from the moment the Chinese to copy and each cost us 20 everyone will use. For now it is much cheaper in the Langstroth hive at least for us here in Brazil.
I live in Brazil, a country blessed by nature, have an exceptional fauna and flora, our honey production is very similar to the US, I believe that concentrated in California, a region of great fruit production in Brazil is in northeast, Bahia, Ceara, good places where many tourists frequent.
We produce honey here in the Southeast, São Paulo and Minas Minas, in the conventional way, like any bee keeper, with the exception of chinesese and Japanese, who are concerned more with the final product.
The great global challenge are the pesticides produced by Monsanto and Bayer, I think everyone knows that, unfortunately Brazil is the 2nd largest consumer in the world, is behind only the US.
The Flow Hive is a very interesting technology, typically urban, simplistic, practice and is not a substitute for height infirm traditional hive.
understand the following dear friends, a person with taste minimum, who cares about their health, play sports, have a healthy diet, or even a restaurant that uses in its revenue quality products, leading beyond a large manufactures products, as seen on youtube, sue bee honey, a fantastic production, trade their hives by Flow Hive? Never.
In short, traditional honey is traditional honey, it’s pure, organic, highly technological in nature, all the natural system of bees is unique, there is no substitute, honey, wax, temperature, vibration, all this promotes quality honey, and customers they know the difference.
Technology and innovation are always something hard to swallow, but traditional methods do not change ever, see the sushi machine, makes temaki, ssushi, sashimi, automatically you prefer to eat one of these or one made by a shushi man in front of you? think about it!!!!
wrg
Sorry you HAVE to use it, just because it’s there. #ohwait – shut up and don’t.
because no vegetables ever benefited from bees and insects being ‘exploited’…
do vegetables scream when you cut them? #haha
My situation is this, we had honey bees buzzing around our house. I called out the beekeeper company. He said because they are in the eave of our house, there wasn’t a way to save the hive and bees. I would like to get a flow hive or something for the bees to “move into”. The beekeeper had to spray something into the eave, I had to wait 2-3 weeks, then have someone take apart the eave and clean out the area. They said the honey bees had easily been there 2-3 years. I really don’t know anything about bee hives or beekeeping, I just know they are very valuable to our ecosystem. Can anyone give me some advice if a Flow Hive is what I need to keep the bees around and happy, just not in my house. Thank you!
“The mind invents logic for the whims of the will.”
You don’t like this invention, or the people who invented it, or the fact that they’re getting so much attention, or something. But none of your arguments really hold up to scrutiny.
Just because they’ve made it easier to collect doesn’t mean that they can ignore the hive. It’s like having a fancy composter – it might be cleaner but if you don’t maintain the proper environment, you’re going to end up with a soggy mess and unhappy (dying) worms.
Communing with bees? I’d be surprised if anyone gets into keeping because they want to put on protective clothing and hope not to get stung.
Too expensive? Acceptable price is based is a combination of market price and a person’s willingness to pay. The items themselves might not be worth $600 but the convenience of collecting the honey is probably worth a hell of a lot more than that for most people. If price was based solely on costs, people wouldn’t pay obscene amounts for first class on planes.
Their invention is successful because they addressed a need and solved a problem for people like them.
I think you need to go sit on a couch to uncover why you’re so jealous and/or angry about it.
Someone is pissed for no reason
Yes it’s an increased price than just a normal frame, but it’s also not a normal frame. The cost would probably be offset by the reduction in other equipment and labor cost when you don’t have to spin the comb or spend as much with the upkeep.
“commune with the bees” oh brother ! you mean raid they hive steal honey and kill a couple of bees while doing it , disrupting their very existence ! If bees dont like the plastic they will simple move ! I have seen bees set up shop even in old tires !
I have a few hives and the worst part is the harvesting of honey , Hate being stung hate the who hassle of honey extraction . To bad freeflow don’t ship to Africa, wish there was a DUI manual on how to make your own !
Just say you are a purist and leave it at that, if it’s a gimmick it will fail,
It’s not a joke..haven’t you seen a bee movie ? 😀
I never disputed that.
The bees are taken care of anyway, beekeepers just take honey from the top frame and leave the rest for the bees.
ruthless, not cruel 🙂 cruelty (feeling pleasure inflicting pain) is a typical human trait….
The tone of this article reminds me of the same people that claim that the only way to drive a car is by using manual. Any other method such as filthy automatics take away from the authenticity of driving, after all, why bother driving if you arent shifting the gears yourself?
I have just read this story, I am brand new to bee keeping as i have just purchased a property with heaps of native plants and a few fruit trees and i think your wrong about the flo, What i can see this has done is it has promoted bee keeping as for me i am about to buy first hive and not because i want honey but because i want to promote polination on my property, the honey is a added extra and yes i want to learn more about bees and i will join a club to learn more but it is this product that has sparked my interest not because it easy to get honey but because i have to buy more equipment to remove honey from the hive. Once i get up running with this hive i will look into more conventional hives as i would also like to keep native bees.
From what i can see here is jealousy and your looking for every conceavable avenue to discredit someone.
My apiary has 80 Flow Hives. I stack two flow hives on two 10 frame supers, my bees produce almost 30% more honey with flow hives than they did with standard frames. And because the two bottom supers are never disturbed, I’ve had to split each of my hives sooner because the hive population doubled faster then expected because the supers are not being disturbed as much. Currently I stack two flow hives over two 10 frame supers and harvest roughly 40 pounds of honey per flow hive (80 pounds per hive), next spring I will be adding 40 more flow hives to my apiary with hopes of having a total of 160 by the end of 2017.
The clear message I get from reading the flow web page and blog information is that they (the Anderson’s) are VERY positive about everyone connecting with local beekeepers and gaining as much education about bees and beekeeping as is possible. They are also posting many video blogs and educating as they can, in a most positive and interesting way.
I really don’t believe people are going to pay a relatively large sum of money for the Flow hive PLUS a pretty hefty delivery fee, plus buy a nuc or swarm, arm themselves with the subsidiary equipment, smoker, suit, veil etc, just to ignore the hive in their garden after a season. It would be very much like buying an expensive pedigree puppy then leaving it at the pound after it grows. Some people might do this, sure, but it’s certainly not going to be MOST people doing this. It seems to me not to be the type of endeavour someone would undertake if they were not seriously aware of the ongoing commitment.
I will be buying 4 flow frames only and installing them in a Langstroth super along with some traditional frames so that I can achieve a simple harvest of honey without disrupting the colony too much and also occasionally harvest a frame for the natural comb, at which time an inspection of the colony can also occur, hand in hand with an experienced beekeeper.
Maryam, after a year on the market, have you seen any proof of what you have written in your article? You are the investigative reporter, so I would ask you to investigate and report back any changes positive or negative that you find.
Queen excluders have their own problems as well. I don’t use them either. Watch the below video for bees trying to get through a queen excluder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDVJ_toKyN8
As a beekeeper who is using this system, I call bulls#!$. I have only one hive at the moment but have had up to 25 at a time. I still commune with my bees, I still tend to them. I do not need to cleanse their chakras and meditate with them, or whatever spiritual mumbo-jumbo you think happens with beehives. Your point about plastics argues from a point of fear. Plastics are not bad for the bees, and actually saves the bees tons of extra work by not requiring them to produce wax (which requires the production of 8 lbs of honey to produce 1 lb of wax) so they are more productive. And when there is a dearth of nectar they WON’T produce wax at all, so there is much benefit there when the season slows. Plastics are not the bogeyman, and you’re not going to die from “off-gassing.” Wax doesn’t purify anything, it actually collects and stores impurities from the environment in the hive. It has been thought that the US practice of reusing comb is contributing to increased pesticide exposure in the hive. Plastics solve that. As for vibration? You haven’t had a bee vibrate you before? They don’t need a magical transportation method across the comb to get the message across…it will be transmitted even through these plastics.
I appreciate the reduction in labor, and the less invasive aspects of this product. It is much more invasive to rob bees of their comb and honey in your natural ways. If you don’t like a product, just get over it. This will not bring on the horses of the apocalypse for hobbyist beekeepers, but it may make it that much easier for those of us who care to know. I have been to the houses of many a clueless backyard beekeeper…they already exist. This isn’t going to change that. I think it actually adds an element of caring and protection because most beekeepers don’t even know HOW to collect their honey because the equipment is specialized and too expensive. So whatever the point of your rant, I can attest that the Flow Hive works, and it’s just that simple. You sure can go to great lengths to glorify the bee, but it’s not a very realistic argument at then end of the day.
I bought the Flow Hive for my wife (we have five hives total) and I cracked open two full frames about a month ago. To actually make sure the frames were full, we did have to remove them (as they were in the middle of the super) and when I cracked them, half of the honey went down into the middle, and half dripped down from the wax into the hive below. I was very disappointed. The peaceful scene of smiling kids running around as a jar is being filled is certainly far from the reality of hundreds of bees being disturbed by honey pouring down on them. We’ve decided to let them have the honey for the winter and plan to lose the frames in the spring. For us…not a good system.
My son and wife are considering it, so they asked for my opinion being that I am an experienced beekeeper. After my research I’ve concluded that if you want to be a honey harvester, I think this is a good way to go with a few caveats. The first caveat is that this is expensive. The second is that the honeybees may reject the comb, and I see that some have. If you want to go all in with a hobby and become a beekeeper, the traditional way is superior. I think the Flow Hive is a sign of the times like so many things in our society. We are living in a world that is fast moving, and people don’t have the time they once had. I may suck it up, and get them one for Christmas as a gift.
I can understand your frustration about some desnecessary negetivity. However the plastic issue is a big issue: “The resonant frequency (230-270 Hz) of the comb is matched to the bees’ vibration sensors and acts as an information highway between bees on opposite sides of the comb”. Unless they find a way to make the plastic foundation simmilar to the wax one, this can be a big problem. The well known waggle dance uses the wax comb as the conductive material. With plastic it’s hard for them to communicate. Besides that this seems a really good opportunity for the backyard or balcony beekeeper. But overall I liked this review. It’s really good to see both sides.
ours are not transported in rubber. We use our hands
Scratching bite getting poison sac there is no pain or red or swelling. he knows tons. Plus the venom is amazing for our immune system and its being used for chronic pain.
p.s we did creamed honey today my most favorite all workers are out of honey house doing something. Been amazing learning.
Thank you. I have gone to the 88 years old bee farmer up north where I live. I showed him that video he said its too good to be true. He didnt trust it. i was questioning it myself. cause bees wouldnt be making comb like normal. thank you so much. This has been the most awesome summer learning old school. We have no suits just long sleeves and a hat. I talk to the girls. Learning. But hes been doing this 73 years and its chemicals on seeds they are putting and sprays killing them. Watching a new hive die within 2 weeks made me cry. Thank you for this. I knew it was too good to be true. MIchele in Ontario Canada
I don’t think vegans base their moral values on what bees do.
Do bees care if it is “Tacky”? If so, at least it’s not faux wood paneling and shag rugs.
I just watched the video fort this product. They DO say in the video that bee keepers still need to open their hives, check for pests & diseases, and so on.
I’m hoping that’s a joke.
Bees exploit each other, once the drones are finished their business they have their wings chewed off and are dragged out of the hive to die, totally against their will. It is a ruthless insect colony.
Because honey is produced by the exploitation of bees, etc.
We invited them to keep coming to our meetings and learn about bees rather than being afraid of them. Im pleased to say they have become really interested in bees and other methods of beekeeping.and our club even sponsored one of them plus another member who has Warre hive to attend a course designed specifically for beekeeping with the Flow Hive so that they might share with us as they learn. Its been a great journey so far actually and our club will purchase a club Flow hive (we already have Warre, Langstroth, Top Bar and variations of allall of those) as shared learning hives.
Bees dont like to be alone, they like to be with humans and nature.
why does she need to “BUY A NATIONAL?” Isn’t she just using this to encourage bees to live in her yard, pollinate her plants and also teach others about bees?
honestly, I don’t think you meant it, but you actually kind of came across as the “dick” and I don’t know if that’s who you are inside or not. but your assumptions were that anyone who was interested in getting to know bee keeping via this kind of hive was a simpleton who was a “wal mart” type of bee keeper – that was the tone. it was high handed and off putting. and it made many people here feel bad. and your statement that the other guy was “a real dick” was again, sortof an indication that you missed the point -AGAIN. perhaps you are a young person who doesn’t understand that the hipster thing is tired and annoying and off putting. he had a good argument, even if it was presented in a rough way. thanks for considering my thoughts too.
yes!!!
good lord. well good for you. but others like to keep bees because they enjoy their honey. some people like to keep chickens because they enjoy their eggs. or because they love to eat chickens. I keep beer kegs because my beer kegs provide me with delicious beer. As it is, to a non-bee person, the guy waxing all judgmental about the people who don’t want to commune with the bees and who looks down his proboscis at those who want to try the new gadget comes across as a bit of a hipster asshole to me. And now, I’m going to have a little big of egg in my beer, with a honey chaser. xo
did they ask for help and did anyone show them what to do for themselves?
It’s called freedom to chose. Look at your situation, assess which system best sits your needs, and go with your decision. Getting uppity about being purist, naturalist or techno minded is an aside to the fact people will do what they think is in their best interest eg. for person A easy harvesting, for person B playing with the bee’s, for person C future bee health etc.
Having just read this article I was thinking there was something drastically wrong with this hive method of extracting honey, like it was actually annihilating bee colonies – but then it struck me, it’s envious more than anything. bee keepeing is a speciality, this makes it easier, soon we’ll have drone honey delivery i suppose. As for animal husbandry, beekeeping for honey is already animal husbandry isn’t it?
Ah good to know…
These are the supers which only contain honey. The brood cells are in the bottom and are left alone. This seems like a great system. I could definitely envision many beekeepers going with this system and phasing out and trying to sell other equipment. I think flow hive is significantly less invasive to the bees than tradition extraction methods. I don’t know if there is any truth to the claim of bees not liking the plastic. I do however agree that this may encourage over-harvesting by inexperienced beekeepers. That said, inexperienced beekeepers will fail using traditional methods as well in many cases. Commercial beekeepers lose hives every year. This article is rubbish.
The drones are also dragged out against their will to die after they are no longer needed. It is a ruthless organization, hardly a friendly commune. Nature is cruel.
The drones are dragged out of the hive against their will to die after they are no longer needed. The whole operation is ruthless, and yet the author waxes poetic about the spiritual bliss of it all. Nature tends to be cruel, humans (clever monkeys) are just a little smarter than other species and have learned to exploit the food chain. This invention increases our efficiency at exploiting hives. Luddites don’t like progress.
Why don’t vegans eat honey? It is not an animal product, it is the nectar from flowers that is captured by bees.
You know, in spite of the insulting high school condescension, ludicrous metaphysical gobbledygook and just plain weak rhetoric, I learned some valuable information. All of it, however, was in quotes. So, thank you, Jonathan Powell. I am dismayed to learn of the possible shortcomings of the Flow Hive’s plastic construction but then again the vast majority of hives, whether commercial or private, are of dubious construction. It is really too bad that the you felt it necessary to insult the reader repeatedly (and poorly). You should be ashamed of yourself but of course humility requires depth of character.
And transporting them all over the place spreads bee diseases and mites. Beekeepers from every state take their bees to California where the mingle and spread diseases to one another and then the bees are brought back to their home states and spread to the local beekeepers and the wild bees.
Looks to me like it will kill larvae and emerging bees that are in the cells as well as crush adults that are cleaning out cells while the cells are being split. Also, I doubt it will hold up very long to all the propolis and wax.
I was curious about the issue of the plastic- I do know that plastics with BPA are hormone disruptors and harmful. But on the flow site, I found this ;
“Are the Flow™ Frames made from BPA free plastic?
In: Frequently Asked Questions
We share your concerns around plastics and have worked hard to find the very best food grade materials.
The clear viewing ends of the frames, as well as the honey tube and caps, are made from a virgin food grade copolyester. The manufacturers have assured us that it’s not only BPA-free, but it is not manufactured with bisphenol-S or any other bisphenol compounds.
The manufacturers also say that third-party labs have tested this material and the results have demonstrated that it is free of estrogenic and androgenic activity. The centre frame parts are made from a virgin food grade polypropylene which is also free from any bisphenol compounds and is widely accepted as one of the safest plastics for food contact. It has also been used for many years in beehives for both brood and honey combs.
We will keep you informed if anything changes and we begin to use any different types of materials.”
Does anybody have any links to the scientific papers on this?
The hassle? there is no ‘hassle’ keeping bees unless you are making money off of their pollination as a commercial beek. Are you another TROLL? mean spirited. I must get back to listening to bene brown. ha!
You sound like a whiny brat! Like an old person complaining about cell phones vs land lines. It’s actually a pretty good contraption. It is already helping to save the bee population because many many people who would not have been able to go through what you have to go through to keep bees, are now able to with this! Look, if you’re old school, that’s fine! But not everybody who gets this is just getting it for honey!! Most of them want it to actually help keep bees without all the hassle and expense.
It seems like you’re just pissed off that there’s something new and you don’t like other people using it because you like the other way better. Well, good for you! Some people like this way better! Get over it!! Stop trying to find bullshit fault in it, when there isn’t any! You do your bee keeping and let others do theirs. Oh and “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” is not only one of the least intelligent sayings. It’s also not true at all!!
I dont think you take into account, that commercial beekeepers have that much capital to spend easily. Also, the wages of hours of toiling work that the employees undergo in the complicated parts almost completely disappears. The product pays for itself, and rather quickly.
they may not (yet) be cost effective for commercial keepers, but if you are an ameteur it might be a good option (i think the cost is down to 300 now)
Agreed. I love the idea of the product but I also tried looking for its negativity. The first point about the plastic comb was good but the rest seems irrational and that is not good enough for me not to love it.
Plastic comb is not new to bee keeping .. I have had one in my hive for 12 years….. Lol the bees still have not used both sides of it… they hate plastic..
How would the bee’s feel when they go to remove the capping and find the honey gone…Mega Stressed… and what happens when they smell honey but can’t immediately access the site.. Mega Stressed…These hives are also a home for disease… In my mind they are rubbish
They wont be that expensive for long, 4 weeks ago i happened too see a new hive set up in China, that looks just like Their flow hive.. and $200 USD
Thats nice. Do you get a medal or trophy for being such a pursit?
the price of 7 flow plastic frames is over $600, the hive and frames cost over $900
As with any business, the cost of production goes down as the business expands. To get in on the bleeding edge of the technology always costs a premium. Wait a couple of years, see how the product shakes out, then invest. It would seem that this would only encourage backyard hives, a definite plus for the amatuer beekeeper. Let’s see how long these hives will last under the rigors of weather and age. Some plastics have a very short shelf life when exposed to sun and cold weather. This author appears to have that age-old syndrome: “Well that’s the way we’ve done it for ages, so let’s not change anything.” Is that what book printers said before the invention of movable press by Gutenberg? Man is designed to be inventive. Would the author give up his electricity because he deems it artificial? I think not.
Would steel or wood be a better material for such a frame?
I don’t know a single experienced beekeeper that runs one of these silly devices. A typical super runs between $30-50 and a flow super costs between $200-300! Also consider most hobbyist beekeepers i know drop off their honey supers for extraction for a $10-15 fee and don’t have to mess with anything! I toss my frames every 5-7 years due to dirt and toxin buildup on the wax so they would never come close to paying themselves off.
Also I think you can get out more honey with the centrifuge!
Looks like a gadget to me, for people who are not really into by beekeeping but just want easy honey… Those are not the kind of people that should keep bees! If you want to start beekeeping you should learn howto, it won’t work with one of these… Also I wander how to clean it and what lifetime it has? I believe the classic way to keep bees is way more ecologic than this flow hype!
And furthermore if you are so in love with bees you should harvest the honey naturally out of trees and such or shouldn’t use them for honey at all hypocrite. Maybe you should reconsider your horribly contradictory opinion.
You sound really angry. Like an angry crotchety bee keeper. What possible harm could it be doing if it gets more people involved in the bee keeping process? For someone who might be considering diving into the world you’re basically telling them to HECK OFF. Bees are making a comeback and I think this product is good for the average Joe who wants to jump into the process without ya know being in a romantic relationship with bees as you seem to be. You should really lighten up.
I’ve almost no knowledge on bees or bee keeping but i’m just gonna jump in here like some passer by and give my useless opinion… moar hives = moar bees.. Doesnt matter if theyre diseased or not. Moar hives – moar bees.. now that every fat jerk who can get a hive running and milk it every once in (however long it takes for honey to buil up) will be getting this provided he has a backyard.. will contribute to saving bees whether its good or bad. If you dont like this you can do it your way… maybe this is the only real way bees will be saved through sheer numbers.. and also honey price will tank and youll be outta job but thats not why youre all mad i hope. The only way you’d be more p1ssed if it started raining honey. But jokes aside your sadistic honey extracting days are over. Advancing technology and innovating ideas always replace and make jobs obsolete.
This entire article sounds like someone is just mad becasue they didn’t come up with it first. This is going to make huge POSITIVE differences for farmers, families, and the world.
With the crisis getting worse, you should be encouraging of any advancement in the protection and production of bees. Nothing is ever 100% and just because you find minute faults in something, doesn’t mean you should actively try and deter people from doing something good.
This hive is revolutonary and no it may not be 100% natural but its a step forward, whereas your article is two steps back. Your view is actually harmful to the bee cause, not supportive. People like you and articles like this are what scare people from even considering to help the bees.
I think you’re doing the damage.. not these guys or this hive.
It seems to be a regurgitation of a Luddite argument against looms and mills.
I think you go too far with the purism here. If you’re going to respect and commune with your bees, that’s fine – but it seems ridiculous that you’d shun something that avoids the need to unnecessarily break open their home and make them think it’s on fire.
Your entire interaction with them is going to be one of nurturing: you still have to open the hive for inspection and to deal with infestations. Stealing their food, at least, you get to make as untraumatic as possible.
As for making a generation of “lazy, hungry honey-eaters who are also terrified of being stung. It will create a generation of oblivious people who don’t know the delicate mechanics of the beautiful hive,” that seems specious; making harvest into a gentle process for the bees in no way eliminates your other responsibilities as a beekeeper. So there’ll be more dilettantes? Then there will be a lot of these things showing up on Craigslist the next year for determined enthusiasts to take advantage of.
As for plastic: spare me the naturalistic crap. While you can get problems with hard plastic frame foundation (e.g., the brood decides the cell size is unsuitable, and they can’t deform them, so they start making bridges between them instead), soft plastic foundations are already a thing that are used widely and successfully, and there doesn’t seem to be any effect on the bees’ frame construction. Whatever the material, frame foundation is an artificial structural element. Bees don’t appear to care what it’s made from, just that wax and propolis stick to it, and they can fit the things they want to into the cells.
It may not be profitable for commercial keepers, but for people who would like to have one hive for their own use it would be a novelty that they wouldn’t mind spending the money on to be able to get their own honey.
I don’t harvest more than 2 combs a year, I never re-queen and I only take bees that would have died if not taken, NEVER from the wild.
MS sufferers often get stung deliberately as it seems to help their condition.
It is not their choice to have a lot of things happen to them. ie forced into hives, Plastic or otherwise, trucked here and there confusing their natural orientation, having their hives robbed of honey, queens, etc etc. Still this is what we humans do on this earth. Manage and micromanage.
I am begging you BUY A NATIONAL!!!!!!
Yeah, a bee sting does cause the death of a bee but at least it is a natural instinct. It is not “macho” to be stung it is natural. It is the bee’s own choice to sting you. It is not, however their choice to be forced into tacky plastic combs.
I keep bees because I love them. Not because I want their honey, the one thing about that honey? It is THEIRS, THEY have worked hard to produce it, THEY should have it.
Correct, But it is IDEAL for urban bee keepers with a verandah or garden roof!
I have the honey flow on my roof in the middle of Tokyo… I had a wooden 6 frame prior to this one. Same bees, Same scenario. They are thriving, making honey and all I have to do is turn on the tap. No mess, No fuss, No having to spin the wax/honey machine… Less bee deaths. We have to consider nature and modernization… We have to find a way for them to connect.
Everyone has their own opinion, but this is the biggest bit of whining and fact free analysis that I have ever seen. I have 5 flow hives, and I’ve been a bee guardian for 30 years. Nothing compares to my experience with the flow hive vs conventional bee keeping. I’ve had Langstroths, Top Bars, etc. I love bees, and this is why I think this invention is great.
If you are going to say that ripping open a hive and pulling frames, and smashing bees, is good for the bees, then you’re deluding yourself. I’ve had people tell me that there’s no way to tell when the honey is ready like this author, and I ask them how do they know when theirs is ready. Duh? Your can look at, pull out, and inspect the flow frames just like a conventional comb.
I had someone tell me they heard that its incredibly messy and honey gets everywhere. (I think they were talking about conventional hives 🙂 My bees don’t seem to mind the plastic at all, and many commercial bee keepers use plastic foundation. Maybe its even more hygienic than old wax. Then there’s the argument that novice bee keepers will spread diseases by not caring for and inspecting the brood. Well, some might be less than vigilant, but what do you think happens in the wild inside of a hollow tree trunk. Who inspects that?
I think there is a lot of grumbling from people who have a ton invested in traditional equipment, and resent that it just got easier for some people. Extractors and a completely set up honey room is a big investment for sure – I had to buy a large jar 🙂 Also, it seems that most of the negative comments are from people who have never used or seen one in action, but didn’t like the videos.
Get over it, and do it the way you want, but quit trying to get support for your lame argument. The Flow Hive is awesome.
This article and all the discussion and
comments make me laugh.
I had the privilege of learning the art of bee keeping from a man with 70+
years in the field. I think he would have loved the idea if he was still with
us.
this article reminds me of what he use to say all the time, “If you ask 3
beekeepers a question, you will get at least 4 different answers” !
There is no such thing as hands free bee keeping, for those who think that,
please buy the product. I enjoy buying used flow hives at reduced prices from
these individuals.
For those who think the product is a gimmick, I would gladly invite you to my
farm and see the hundreds of gallons of honey I produce from these hives, with happy and
healthy bees.
I would take you more seriously if you were not selling fake woo cures all over your website
For hundreds of years before sugar production nearly every household in Britain had a few behives. Now suddenly the purists are extolling commercial mass production. As you said so using feeding and transport methods which can in no way be called natural.
Elitism and condescending to small operators learning how to keep bees is a little strange.
Then the article claims the high ground by saying “Most beekeepers, including myself, will tell you that honey is just a bonus. I keep bees because I love having them around. It’s a bee-centric, rather than honey-centric, endeavor.”
A bit weird considering he is making a living from bees and teaching about them which ultimately is paid for by the bees honey production.
“Terrified of being stung” like the previous method is “Macho” or something. So obviously to someone of his calibre should no a bee sting causes the death of the bee. Again, smacks of elitism. No one can do as well as we the old guard etc.
So what is being uplifted as a prefered method is effectively the mass production mono culture methodology.
I wonder what the crash of a truck carrying 100.000’s of bees from one site to another works in favour of commercial mass production. As a friend of mine used to say, “How is that working for you?
I am not against commercial production but lets not overstate the case in its favour. Anything get people learning about bee production is good. It is a requirement Australia to have beehives a person attend a recognised course to learn about husbandry and diseases so that there is some sort of a standard.
Maryam, I applaud your expertise and your passion. I don’t know a thing about beekeeping, but I live in an Appalachian area where bees have all but disappeared. It seems that anything one can do to introduce bees to the area might be a good thing. I’ve spent 50 years learning my craft. I play almost exclusively on acoustic guitars. Why would I be passionately against electric guitars and effects pedals? I should do everything I can to encourage people to make music, no? Thank you for your article, I will consider everything you’ve said before I make the jump into getting a beehive.
So the main contention with this device is that because it has simplified the process it *might* open beekeeping up for abuse and people *might* not have as much respect for the art of beekeeping by taking shortcuts? By that logic we should condemn all computer use by teens because they *might* look at porn, or we should ban chocolate because people *might* abuse it and become obese.
The thing that you’re not figuring in (and I’m not saying you’re wrong mind you) is the savings in labor costs. How long does it take to collect honey from a typical hive used by commercial beekeepers? From what I understand, with this one, you spend maybe 5 minutes getting it set up, move on to the next one, and then circle back after a given time and spend 5 minutes reversing your previous actions to collect the honey and reset the hive.
not to mention… not all of the hives transported from the East Coast to the West coast makes it back to the East Coast, there have been thousands of hives that are burnt not making the expensive ride home!
Let the HATE flow, honey.
How do you separate the brood from the super? Just add it later on? I’m going to be new to this in about 4 years and I’m gaining as much info as I can now before I start out.
This could have been written about our Constitution and how we are watching its desecration at the hands of progressives who use the Supreme Court to streamline the process and avoid the amazing process of amending the Constitution properly and legally.
yah except bees are ancient magical creatures that are not vegetables. that is just very strange reasoning.
Let the fad beekeepers spend their money on this for a while. I look at this and see a swarm machine. One brood chamber atop a brood/honey super to me sounds like the bees are going to be swarming at least once a year. Not many people will add another brood chamber to this, or go in and check for pre-swarm activity and take action to ensure good honey build.
My thinking is, more swarms, more hives out there to build the population back up. Also, more swarms for us beekeepers to attract.
I MIGHT, just might, throw one of these on top of a healthy hive next year, just to see what the honey tasted like compared to traditionally harvested honey.
Note- I have been keeping bees for 5 years, and just this May finally got a super full of honey. I am looking forward to my first harvest later in the season!
I bought one to make a positive impact. I will take bee keeping classes
to educate myself and treat them with care and respect as I do all the
living creatures (chickens,Bunny,Cats,frogs and even a hermit crab) we
take care of. I respect your attempt at a counterpoint but the flavor of
the article is negative and pretentious. “How dare someone try to
bee-keep differently than me” is what it comes off like. Also for what
its worth, the literature that comes with the flow hive is very
informative and clearly explains that hive health, and all the
beekeeping essentials will need to be learned and they strongly
recommend beekeeping courses.
“Flow Hive has been described as a possible “key” in keeping the world’s bee population from further decline.” Really? How so? This just makes honey collection simpler and easier. How does it help bees survive the issues they are currently grappling with? ”
Wasn’t a fan of your article and the quote above basically summarizes why I think your views are wrong. You enjoy raising bees and you enjoy all the hard work that goes into it. The average person doesn’t. A lot of people would like fresh honey if it required minimal work (the whole crossfit, vegetarian, all natural crowd). This hive will lead to people “growing bees” like they grow tomatoes which in turn will significantly increase the number of bees being raised.
I hate the flow hive I keep bees in a national beehive and wouldn’t do it any other way
I am continuously surprised at how vitriolic people get over this article, attacking me personally for writing quite a successful story in that it inspired debate and discussion. If you suddenly give a shit about bees because you can now enjoy their honey on tap or because you beekeeper can now make a better living selling honey, congrats. You are part of the establishment. I am more of a top bar or skep kind of gal at heart. I revere the bees. They are magical. The ways they have showed up in my life while making vanishing of the bees is beyond this earthly realm. To suggest that i am jealous is really actually funny. Hello, i am not an inventor. I am a journalist who writes stories like this to share information and inspire critical thinking.
I was starting to think I was the only one who got the point Maryam was making so thankyou Josh!! I don’t know if it is a good invention or not. I thought it was a good idea when I first saw it but on closer inspection I’m not so sure. I do think due to its perceived simplicity that it encourages people with little knowledge of bee keeping to delve into keeping bees and like many fads most people will tire of it very quickly and it will end up at the dump with all the other fad inventions so I doubt that it will help increase bee populations. If anything it may allow for greater spread of disease and pests within bee habitats because of the average persons lack of bee education. As many people who may purchase a flow-hive are doing it for the honey and not to increase bee populations then I guess they might not be overly concerned about bee health. I’m not sure if it is directed at commercial producers or not. Is the flow-hive better or worse than existing set-ups? I don’t know but I do think that the way we use bees really needs to change because without them we are f*#^ed. But as with all things human the all-mighty dollar is God and nothing, not even our impending demise, will make a difference to those who can make a difference.
“honey robber”? LOL. I guess if I work a socially productive job for a living and I don’t have the time to spend countless hours meditating on my knees in front of the hive in order to become one with the bees before I respectfully rip apart their hive as a prayerful sacrifice to mother-earth, then I’m just an ungrateful “honey robber”.
Thank you! It’s been a long time since I was spoken to in such an eloquently condescending manner.
Expensive? Only compared to building your own out of scrap wood in the barn, but not at all expensive compared to equipment and space required to extract honey from a wax comb. I appreciate your concern for the hobby budgets of so many people you don’t know, but seriously… Is it really any of your business what someone else wants to spend on convenience?
Non-existant communion with bees? Why don’t you ask the bees if they miss the “communion” that comes with being smoked out of their home before all of their hard work gets ripped apart. I wonder if the bees would agree that the old-school method of being smoked out, their home destroyed, and their honey extracted in totality is a much more harmonizing method of “harvest”?
Plastic combs? Meh, maybe. Some plastics can give off chemicals with high temperatures. I haven’t researched the type of plastic used so I can’t comment, but the bees seem to enjoy the flow hives plastic just fine. You certainly don’t see them abandoning the hive because they don’t like the plastic. It seems that the bees think the flow-hive is totally acceptable and fill it to the brim. Toxic environments tend to be void of nature. You certainly don’t see bees abandoning the plastic combs. After “communing” with the bees, they’re not saying that they hate the plastic comb.
Please. keep your opinions between you and your vegan book club.
Wrong. I harvested with no protection and not one bee bothered me.
Miss Louise. I see that you say you have a Flow Hive. Has it been working for you?
It works be hard to abuse or over extract. The full kit comes with a Langstroth brood box for the bees to make a fully natural honey comb colony, the flowframe then goes on top to harvest any extra honey that is produced by the colony. You only pull from the overflow.
We just got a flow hive super with three frames to trial – I’m glad to hear that setup works as its how were were planning on doing it also – only difference it gets cold where we are so they need two full mediums for winter. So the flow hive would ONLY be used to harvest above and beyond what the bees need, and regular inspections are done just as they would be without an extra super, and it wouldn’t overwinter on the hive.
This author needs to get off their high horse and start meeting the beekeepers with flowhives. My husband and I purchased one because last year we literally used Q-tips to pollinate our garden. While it worked great for our cucumbers and squash, it did not work at all for most other plants. We live in town and are very excited to have bees for our garden and flowers. We have no plans to steal all of the bees honey as we do not even plan on harvesting any honey until next year. We have 2 full brood boxes just for the bees. We have read books, watched hours of you tube videos on beekeeping, and are in contact with multiple local beekeepers. We are excited to connect with the bees and open up and inspect the hive. We have created water sources for our bees and have a feeding source for them for early spring and times of low nectar flow.
If you are really interested in helping the bees… Help educate the flowhive owners of the importance of taking care of the bees.
Our purchasing of one flowhive has been the beginning of a huge movement of helping bees in our small community. Our friends and families have jumped in and started learning about bees also. Those who are unable to keep bees themselves are planting flowers our bees will enjoy. They are creating safe water source for bees. They are agreeing to not use pesticides that will harm our bees… What a terrible thing it has been for bees that we purchased this “expensive gimmick”
The pros still far outweigh the cons. It’s like saying why send an email when you can communicate with a hand written letter. Or, why use a a plastic blender for smoothies when you can squish fruit by hand.
This is such a sweet and sour article. I watched the movie Vanishing bee’s and it was the turning point for me to finally understand what’s going on with the bee population. This writer actually is the reason I purchased my flow hive! Irony here to hear her bashing flow hives. evolution of bees is something she avoids to mention though. Honey Bee’s are a DOMESTICATED insect. We forget that almost all the food for human consumption today has gone through a form of modification by humans. In order to do this we choose to exploit the honey bee: for all their brilliance. Screaming for purity for the bee’s would never happen if it were not for the global distribution of honey bee’s found in Africa thousands of years ago. Now the plastics and the removing of habit by the bee’s is something of interest, And culture around beekeeping is another important point. But to me her argument is similar to a Peta activist demanding animal justices while where leather shoes. I look forward to sharing my experience with the flow hive and do the responsibe thing and find a mentor, educator and learn the relationship we can have with bees.Furthermore, with so many educational institutions growing because of this bee crisis, I’m certain that we will know within 5-10 years if the Flow hive is safe for bee’s.
Hello Sue,
Cory here from www.beekeeperconnection.com All you need to do is read a few books about beekeeping. You will see that harvesting honey isn’t a chore nor is tending to the bees on a weekly basis. I recommend you purchase two langstroth hives and two nucs to start. You will be sitting by the hive drinking a warm drink every morning in no time.
thanks,
cory
Ok… So article aside, here’s my two cents; if someone plans to buy a Flow Hive, install a package of bees, and just sit back and crank a knob a couple times a year… and believes their bees will succeed and supply them with honey, is sadly mistaken. Whether or not the Flow Hive honey super works for effortless honey harvest, or not, doesnt seem to be the debate here. Whether it’s a langstroth, bar, warre, or Flow Hive, there is still a duty as a beekeeper to manage the bees wellbeing. If someone believes you just simply buy a hive, install bees, and the bees do the rest, will soon see they are wrong, and not see much return on ther investment. A new queen comes in a package with only nurse bees, so therefore they won’t be foraging and need to be fed the first season, so anyone not willing to open a brood box should think about that. In fact you will most likely not be harvesting any honey the first season, the bees will need that honey for over wintering. At least in cooler climates. (It would be sugar water honey anyhow) There’s so much more to cover before a beekeeper can even think about honey harvest it’s best if anyone entertaining the idea of beekeeping join a local association and educate themselves on the subject, it’s not exactly “plug and play.”
So plastic vs. wooden/wax: I like wood and wax frames, and the bees do too, but I use plastic frames in my honey supers. After a few seasons of having to replace many wooden frames after honey extraction I switched to plastic for thier longevity. The bees don’t seem to mind. I still use wooden frames in the brood boxes since they aren’t subject to knifing and centrifugal force. I admire the writers “purist” views, but let’s face it, beekeeping is in itself not very purist. The whole idea is to promote the bees to live in a hive much bigger than they would in nature, and even the most basic and natural of beekeeping still involves getting all up in their business.
Bottom line is; do your homework, get involved with your local beekeeping association, and have fun. I guarantee that if you get involved with bees, you will end up having a greater appreciation for what they do, and you will want to be a more involved beekeeper. And for those that want to “not get stung,” or think they just buy a hive and don’t need to get intimately involved with bees… good luck with that.
I’m a person who’s intrigued in this idea and wanting to keep bees for business ideas I have planned. I see the point of connecting with the bees, like a pet you spend time and connect with the animal. Which we ourselves are even animals and we need to learn to Coexist with nature not go against her. I’m also down for change and new ideas as long as its beneficial to man kind and our planet, I don’t see much negatives in this idea the bees still make their wax and do their work as a colony. I want bees not just for their honey but for their work with plants, I plan on working with different plants and flowers like lavender. So bees are essential to the lively hood to my plants I wanna grow and invest in, doesn’t mean in time I can’t always put more investment and time with more bees for harvesting. My only catch is I would also like to get the wax from the bees and this is the only thing not really mentioned from this innovated idea, this is really the only negative I can find. If someone who put money and time in this and doesn’t bother to take care, watch and nurture their bees, than they shouldn’t be bothering in this kinda work. Like a hobby or work in general you spend time and effort in it or you just don’t do it because your wasting your time. For the old school bee keepers who’ve already invested time and money doesn’t mean they can’t start building this idea and project, heck as anything, they should change in 5-10% of their bee farm into this idea and see what positives and negatives might be, do 3% even just to get the jest. They might even see a new way of doing things if it works better than the old way. My thing is, don’t back lash something if you haven’t tried it yourself and if money is the issue than change over slowly in time. Remember it takes money to make money and bigger investments might save you more money in time, so weigh out the pros and cons before jumping the gun and do your research before getting into something.
Thank you! It’s good to see there is another rational, thoughtful person here!
You obviously completely missed the point. It is harmful for the bees. You are not a beekeeper, are you? She spent a good bit of the opener of this article talking about how the plastic honeycomb harms the bees. Also, when honey extraction is this easy, it promotes abuse. It makes it too easy for beginners, who don’t want to take the time to really learn all the details, to extract too much honey too often. The bees make honey for themselves. Humans can only take the excess if they want their bees to survive. Taking too much honey will kill your bees. Instead of going on the attack, why don’t you do some more research? You’ll find that the author of this article is right on.
We had a couple turn up at our last Beek meeting with a request, “We just got our Flow Hive. Can someone just come out and set it all up for us. We don’t want to touch the bees at all!! Just do it for us!” Needless to say no one offered to do that, but we did invite them to join the Association and to come regularly to our meetings.
The hive itself, whether it be a Warre, Langstroth, Flow Hive, plastic etc etc etc is not a natural environment for bees – you are right. Its not the Warre hive to claims to be natural, just that the ideologies and methods behind keeping bees in top bar hives tend to be more ‘natural’ and certainly bee-centric, than many other methods because bees are allowed to do what they do with minimal interference and mostly without the expectation of honey on tap to steal whenever you want. Certainly not cracking open their brood comb to harvest what you can’t see or are not interested in looking at, and think is honey! If there was a bullshit metre for all the hives and connecting ideologies that people who have certain kinds of hives tend to follow, the Flow Hive would come out on top of all that as bullshit, in my opinion (based on empirical evidence as collected by my eyes in various places)!!
You can’t force your own morality on others. People have used bees as a tool for thousands of years to extract honey and pollinate crops. You are free to disagree with it and not practice it yourself, but that doesn’t mean anyone has to agree with you. I think you should strip naked cover yourself in honey and commune with your bees if you choose. I am in it for the honey and pollination.
That is a sensible interpretation. At the current cost of frames, this does not support commercial setups real well. They could be very beneficial for new beekeepers that don’t want to invest in all the equipment at once. Having one main collection super on your hive will also save your back if you in a situation where heaving heavy honey laden supers above your waist presents problems.
You hit the nail on the head. And you would only need one harvest super that you can continually empty until the end of the season when you remove it. My setup is two deeps for brood and food, a medium depth super for winter food reserve, and then my flow hive super on top. The only honey I will ever take is from the flow hive. The rest will for the bees to live on. My bad back will not allow me to keep stacking supers if there is a good nectar run.
Most beekeepers, not all, do use plastic at some point in processing or storage. Just because you don’t, doesn’t mean most don’t. A Warre hive doesn’t do anything a Langstroth hive can’t. You are referring to comb honey, and can be achieved with top bar frames as well. A Warre hive is sometimes easier to work on and claims to be a more natural bee habitat (which is bullshit). They are also completely unsuitable for cold northern climates.
Commercial beekeepers have already invested in all the extraction and processing equipment that makes sense on a commercial level. Even inexpensive extractor more suitable for home use still involved significantly more labor in cleaning and use. Commercial beekeepers also regularly use a large amount of chemical pesticides, feed sugar water, and transport their bees across huge distances in trucks to pollinate monocrops. Not everything a commercial beekeeper does is good for bees or honey production and should never be held as the ideal for beekeepers.
They could make the frames with organic hemp plastic! Im sure theres other things also that could make it a better product.
We already have a huge disconnect with bees and other benificial bugs so anything like this is a great way for people to start getting intune with nature and produce there own food instead of getting it from the huge industrial farms. It helps people create a relationship with the bees because there not scared of getting stung. And its a less aggressive method then the old way of smoking the bees and taking all there honey at one time instead of taking a little at a time with the flow have.
I am also a “backward beekeeper” and am aware of the problems of disturbing the hive. Ive used a langstroth, then made the lang into a top bar of sorts then used a top bar. I am ALWAYS mindful of taking honey and only do so one comb at a time and I don’t use a centrifuge but crush the comb and then replace (with a wax strip) for the bees to rebuild on thier own. That said, it has been a bumpy road, but I am always thinking of the health of the hive and what benefits the bees. I am hoping that the flow hive (yup I have one!) will be the answer to my dilemma as I mostly want to have the bees be undisturbed while watching them. The top bar did not last very long for some reason european hornets are VERY attracted to it, so hoping this will be the method that will allow us to beekeep in a way that benefits the honeybees. I am not crazy about the plastic foundation, and have never used it before so I will keep y’all posted.
Ummm you seem to be referring to commercial harvesting. Backyard beekeepers dont necessarily put honey through plastic or rubber. If you have a Warre hive, for instance, you simply cut the honey filled comb off the frame and either eat it from the comb, or crush it in muslin cloth and catch it in glass jar. I saw the promotional video showing this process to be difficult and messy, but I just harvested one frame from my hive and an ordinary steak knife cut the comb from the frame like butter. I cut it into small squares and we ate if from the plate. Took less than 5 mins to complete the process. Many of the jusitifications and criticisms here appear to be confusing commerical harvesting, which would take up an amount of time proportional to the amount of hives they have. Backyard beekeepers with 1 or 4 hives only take the amount of time they wish to stay with their bees. I do a lot of observation of my girls at the entrance to the hive. I can sit there for hours watching their activity – much better than posting or like rubbish on fb even (now there’s a thought!).
I would like to question why you would need a Flow Hive if you only wanted pollinators? You don’t need an expensive gadget if you just want pollinators.
I think the biggest question nobody asked is how do they get to drain the honey without it being full of drowned bees?? Do they use a bee escape board?
Apparently it will still cost over $200 per hive just to replace the frames in two boxes ?
The average fulltime honey producer running a couple of thousand hives could therefore be looking at 4,000 supers worth of frames..
Even with a volume discount that could still be around $400k for a 2000 hive operation ?
Compared with around $50 – 60,000 for a decent sized extracting plant (say around 400 boxes a day..).
It also has to be remembered that commercial beekeepers these days use 1500kg (1000 litres) bulk honey containers for storage, rather than 44 gal. drums; (your 15 and 20 litre pails are only used for short-term handling, not bulk storage..).
For a commercial beekeeper, there would still be the transfer of honey to these bulk containers, and forklift and truck movements of full containers.
(And yes, for anybody who’s wondering : I have been around bees for much of my life, I have worked with commercial beekeepers, run my own sideline honey business since the 1970s – and I attended Hawkesbury Ag’ college (UWS) here in NSW..)
I still believe that the main market for this system wil be hobbyist/amateur apiarists running up to 30 hives or so, and preferably in a decent honey production location.
It’s $600 for a full hive. Commercial beekeepers already have hives, they would just need to buy the frames to put in the existing hives.
You’re talking about the bees used to pollinate the Almond trees in California. Not all commercial beekeepers do that. There’s one here, locally who harvests “varietal honey” and never do the bees leave their beeyards.
Also, you still need to maintain the Flow Hive as you would any hive. You do need to look at the bees, you do need to medicate if you medicate, you do need to inspect the frames and make sure that they’re capped properly before harvest. The *only* thing that this gadget changes, is the way it’s harvested. Being older, and not having a great back, I’m hoping this might work better for me, not having to carry away full supers to harvest.
You are as bad as the author of this site, “there would be bees all over the place robbing that honey as fast as it could come out of that little tap”….are you kidding me, that is so ridiculous. I have been around hives, and I completely disagree.
This article makes me mad. This guy sounds like a jealous teenager.
Louise, and John Moser, thank you both so much for your insight. I can’t wait to purchase some! I live inside a New York state park and work with developmentally disabled adults , so these will work out well on several fronts. All the best, Michael
these were made for the yuppie beekeeper, remember them they gave us woodstock and the millenium kids. wannabee beekeepers like wannabee capitalists.
the biggest problem with beekeeping has been the beekeeper, his greed for the golden honey to make money. Takes all the honey and gives them sugar water which causes diseases like dysentery. Bees have been taking care of themselves for thousands of years and man comes along and has turned them into slaves. I am a beekeeper and keep bees because I like them. Yes I sell the few pounds of honey to people I know but they make my garden thrive and we have fun playing around.
these are made for those lazy beekeepers and those yuppies, remember them??
It’s hard to read an article against the evils of commercializing the Flow Hive when the article is so packed full of commercials (between paragraphs, in the side bar, pop-ups).
My quick calculations showed me that a hobbyist might keep up to 25 or 30 hives on one site, depending on local conditions…
Any more than this, and economy of scale supports a more traditional extraction and packing plant..
HERE in Australia, with average annual production around 100 kgs/hive, most commercial beekeepers are running between 1200 and 2 or 3 thousand hives…
Only a handful operate 5 – 6,000 hives. I’m not aware of any running over 10,000 hives down here.
A 1200 hive operation in Oz should be mov8ng around 120 or more tonnes a year, on average..
You have never used a large scale fully mechanised extraction plant, have you, Miss Brown ?
HOW MANY commercial scale apiarists will want to spend over HALF A MILLION DOLLARS to change systems ?
That would produce very expensive honey..
P.S. most commercial operators handle honey by the super these days, NOT individual frames (forklifts, palets, eboxers and automatic uncappers have changed that..).
Commercial beekeepeers won’t use this sustem for one simple reason – it is far too expensive !!!
The setup costs (around $600 per hive for small part time operators..) means that a commercial beekeeper with around 1200 hives will need to find over HALF A MILLION DOLLARS to change over !
That’s some nine – ten times the cost of installing a completem new plant !
The main market for this system will likely be hobbyists with only 20-30 hives, and who don’t intend on getting much bigger..
Envouraging people to keep bees without ,examining hives will only increase ignorance about hive health, pests and diseases.
It is no coincidence that the main interest in this invention is coming from non-beekeepers ans small-time “fringe” operators..
P.S. others on here need to note that genuine “Vegans” don’t eat honey, nor keep bees…
Hi! Several members of my family are bee keepers and it’s a beautiful but also hard job. We all saw the Flow hive as a way to enhance this practice and preserve the specie. Most people that just want honey and can afford this product can also go out and buy some honey of amazing quality! this hive gives the opportunity to learn about our fellow bees and understand better their importance in our lives and it does not destroy a sacred communion as this author might think but it actually brings humans and bees closer. It is a fascinating invention and it feels like someone has reinvented the wheel ! Your critics should be constructive and not this bitter. You point out the financial part as if these people have come up and sold their idea in days. it took at least a decade of research which is probably hat you should do before throwing the first stone.
I appreciate the purist desires. The author of this review fails to recognize how the flow hive system will help bees. That is the shortsightedness of the whole article. Indeed the flow hive may be to the purist and commercial apiarist to be a gimmick and it may very well be. However, this “gimmick” will promote and increase the number of hobby beekeepers. I have kept bees in the past. It is a fascinating hobby. But the reality is that most people are afraid of bees and their little sting. This “gimmick” offers a vision to people who love the concept of bees but were afraid of them to get into the hobby. I see many more hobbyist beekeepers as a result of honey flow. As for the cost, for a veteran beekeeper it may be high, but for the new beekeeper it is not. If you were to purchase all of the components of a hive, centrifuge, bee suits and all of the bee keep equipment for a beginner beekeeper it is about the same. So why would anyone be against encouraging people to become hobbyist beekeepers and let them evolve. Personally I want more beekeepers and support whatever it takes to grow their numbers.
Thank you for this article. It’s making me stop and really ask what do bees need for their survival and to thrive? Your input on the science of the intricate function of their wax is eye opening. I didn’t know the wax is the tissue and frame for the hive and acts as an information highway. The statement that it also holds the history through chemical exchange is of paramount importance. If off gassing plastic “imprints” into this history….we don’t know what we’re playing with. What we do know is that bees are monumental in our survival and warrants extreme care and consideration in how we intersect with them. The incredible seduction of having honey on tap can very well lead to the demise of bees. I think if we start/proceed with what do the bees need to thrive for the equivalent of our next 7 generations, there’ll be a stronger possibility that we both survive and thrive. To avoid changing our egocentric lifestyles and expect the bees to survive is only going to lead us all down one path. It would be great to see the founders of the flow hive (and the rest of us) to really sit with this question and see what arises from that place of knowing within, “What do bees need to thrive for the next seven generations”
Hello Honey Colony Members,
I am a hobby Bee Keeper in South Africa and am currently relocating to Costa Rica, Central America.
I have a Langstroth Bee Hive set up that I regretfully have to leave behind.
Having researched the “Flow Hive” System and following all the various opinions both positive and negative on the Honey Colony site, I have decided that it would best suit my needs in Costa Rica and have ordered 3 Full Units that will ship to me in April, 2016.
As I will have to set up the Brood Box’s with a Queen and Nucleus of Bees would anyone know where I would be able to obtain them in Costa Rica?
Appreciate all your comments and assistance.
Pura Vida – Shawn
Wow, just checked your profile and you must be one of their marketing shills. You still forgot to answer some of the bigger questions though since I was talking about impurities in general, not just brood or hive beetle waste.
Here’s a question you might answer. If you have to check to see if there’s capped comb, or if there’s hive beetle waste in it, what benefit does the FH provide again? I mean, it’s obviously not very “hands-off” if you have to do all of that. Of course, it’s not like the hands-off approach is a good one to begin with.
Not only is it not practical, it is bogus as a 3 dollar bill. Madoff probably wishes he had thought if this. If you have money you wish to through away, buy one. You will not be helping the bees.
Hi Carrie. You mentioned “…fell for a gimic.” Do you feel the Flo Hive is a gimic or do you like it? Just wondering because I would like to have bees but on a very small scale. 1. I need some polinators because I have several fruit trees and 2. I would like just a bit of honey. I too am from Michigan and would like some pointers.
I had serious questions regarding this process. However you talk of use of plastic cells being used. Well many Beekeepers already use plastic comb in their frames to reduce cost and time spent on frame construction and reconstruction. So that point is is one I will toss to natural versus less natural beekeeping practice. The disruption of the hive issue I would side with the makers on this product. This is far less invasive than cracking open a super and pulling all frames to harvest. Far less bees lost and less stress on the hive. Now the clean environment I would lean to a natural process of harvesting. This you do not remove frames and inspect each one every harvest. This could lend to condensation and mold issues if you never pull this apart to clean it. All in all I feel the design took into consideration factors to promote beekeeping by the beginners. On the negative side even though they state you must maintain the brood box as normal it is brushed over and could led to negative impact on the hives well being. Me personally if I were to use this product I would make several changes. Fist brood box maintenance would still need done every harvest and have normal periodic inspection for swarm colonies building in the hive. Second this would be used as only one super in the hive with others being natural construction. This would allow for periodic tear down and proper cleaning of this product with the bees still having a natural environment to store honey. My only question with completed frames of all kinds is when using them does this affect bee population. The queen will produce more worker bees when a colony must build comb from scratch. If a colony has nothing but build frames it has been known for colony population to be reduced. This would be especially important if the colony is a new one and has not been established for long. Combine that with an occasional swarm and it could led to the collapse of the whole hive. So bottom line using both established and non establish frames would seem the wiser choice far a colony. Now I am just starting out myself in the bee keeping process, but have done my homework. I am an environmental Scientist and have gotten into Aquaponics and organic gardening since entering into this field. I do know there is much more going on as far as environmental impact when we introduce man mad materials into any natural process. With that said I do not see myself personally buying this product, but only because I am starting fresh with a new colony. Latter down the road I may consider one super box from this product, but only in order to help reduce honey saturation. This would allow for the colony to rebuild this box while I maintain the others and harvest. Remember your colony can out grow your boxes and if you don’t pay attention to its size you could one day wake up and half your colony is gone in a swarm.
Anyway this is my two cents worth, and my opinion.
If the article is all you say, how come Maryam asked Flow Hive inventers for their views/comnents/response, which they sent her and she said ‘I haven’t had time to read it, or publish it’ That was over 6 months ago.
I would add disingenuous to that list of adjectives to describe this article.
But patents have to be renewed every 14 or 20 years (depends on the type) and a patent taken out in one country does not cover all countries.
It is highly likely that the flow hive inventors did not know about the previous invention, but even if they did I think the patent would have run out some 50 or so years ago.
I realise you wrote this 9 months ago, but I think it pretty shabby that you went ahead with the article without publishing Flow Hive’s response. You didn’t even make time to read it.
So very one sided.
How many flow hives do you operate? How many flow hives has the author tested?
These are all things they added after the fact. I have not checked what they have done since writing this story. to each their own. i dont want to keep my bees this way. the story presented a point of view that is backed by other beekeepers, to spew the vile that has come out of people’s mouths is astounding. If you are like the woman above who doesnt give a shite about being a bee budy, she can have a flow hive.
Wow.
I have to agree. I am just interested in a low maintenance way to get my trees pollinated, maybe provide a safe haven for some bees and possibly a little honey for myself. I am not interested in “commuting” with bees or even being a bee buddy. I was interested in this article to find out if it works not to see if I could qualify or be honored as a bee “purist” all